What made it even worse was that the loaner knew she had previously had a problem foaling although I didn't know what it was. The person I bought her from told me she had no problems but then I heard from someone else who knew the person I bought her from that she did have problems but she couldn't remember what they were and the person I bought her from wouldn't answer the phone when I rang. She had won her class as a 3 year old at Towerlands so was very precious to me. She only went on loan as I had to have an eye operation and was told that I would have to be face down for 4 weeks afterwards. I agreed the loan and before the mare went I was told that it would only be one week face down so I didn't really need to loan her as my husband could cope for a week but, having agreed the loan, I felt it was only fair to let her go and not go back on the agreement. If only one could turn the clock back!
however, I have loned to Claire and Mark Moore and they were wonderful; I would recommend them to anyone, and also my friend Paulette. Both mares came back in great condition.
Barbara
jackiedo
Posted - 06 Aug 2011 : 9:57:56 PM Barbara I have just read your earlier post - how awful for you, I can imagine there could be little worse, I know that things can go wrong foaling at the best of times but that was unforgivable. You have my sympathies
FullCircle
Posted - 06 Aug 2011 : 5:55:56 PM
Originally posted by alan
I had a mare on breeding loan which came with a loan agreement witnessed by my friend who picked her up with me. I covered her later that year & it was only when I sent the covering stub & loan agreement off that the AHS advised that the mare didn't belong to the lady I had loaned her off!! They tracked the owner down & it turned out the mare had been put on loan due to the owners husbands ill health but the mare had been missing for 6yrs!!
So what happened in the end? Did you end up keeping the mare? Or did the rightful owner take her back???
barbara.gregory
Posted - 06 Aug 2011 : 3:37:24 PM That is awful, Paresh, some people! It is sad that people behave like that but a lot of us have been there. Also, it puts people off loaning their horses. I have some lovely SE mares who haven't had a foal for years and could produce a lovely foal for someone else but I am now wary of loaning having lost my best mare.
Barbara
Paresh
Posted - 06 Aug 2011 : 10:36:00 AM Jackiedo, I had something similar happen to me, I loaned a horse from a now ex friend, she had cancer, I put her in foal, paid the stud fee, livery etc, girl after 6mths off work had her wages cut to 50~% at which point she told me I had to buy the horse or she was going to take her back and sell her and the foal, I wouldnt buy her as she wasnt what I would have wanted to have myself, the owner had tried very hard for me to use her choice of stallion which I didnt do I chose what I would want in a foal, and I think she had this plan in her mind all along. She came and collected the horse next day, and I had no rights as the foal was invitro, if it had been born in my care I would have then owned the foal, but there was nothing I could do as I didnt own the mare when it was in foal.
jackiedo
Posted - 06 Aug 2011 : 10:14:26 AM I have loaned out ponies with great success, so there are good experiences too. I also know some loaners who missed out big style. I loaned a TB on permanent loan who was going to be PTS due to not being in foal. She had been recovering from a virus and was not in the best of condition, although the lady who I loaned her off had not neglected her in any way, I had her 4 months and she had fully recovered and was looking good. Then we saw a movement.... I took her to my vets and she was scanned in foal! (the previous scan on 1st Oct had missed it) Of course I told the lady I had loaned her from, and she felt that she had to tell the owner and the stallion owner as there was a stud fee due (remember this mare would be dead if I had not agreed to take her, only by the kindness of the yard owner she was on was her life saved) Owner immediately took her back, not a thank you, no reimbursement of transport costs or vet fees let alone the livery bills. Also, I know a girl who took on loan a ISH being told he was 13 (he was infact 18 when she took him and is 19 now) unfit, long feet not been ridden for years, she kept him all winter, got his teeth and feet done, got him fit for work and competing, kept asking for the agreement and passport which were not forthcoming and owner turned up asking for either payment of £1500 for the horse within 24 hours... and took him back to sell. I think the answer has to be check check and check again. Go and see where the horse will be kept, get contracts drawn up so there is no doubt, and do, definately follow up on the visits. I usually ask for a vet reference, a personal reference, another industry reference and proof of id and proof of address.
alan
Posted - 05 Aug 2011 : 10:21:01 PM I had a mare on breeding loan which came with a loan agreement witnessed by my friend who picked her up with me. I covered her later that year & it was only when I sent the covering stub & loan agreement off that the AHS advised that the mare didn't belong to the lady I had loaned her off!! They tracked the owner down & it turned out the mare had been put on loan due to the owners husbands ill health but the mare had been missing for 6yrs!!
Judith S
Posted - 05 Aug 2011 : 10:37:52 AM The biggest problem here seems to be that they caught her off-guard and took the horse without a loan agreement in place. That is why the police can't do anything as it is one person's word against the other. What it highlights is the importance of getting the paperwork right so at least there is something to relate to if the worst happens.
barbara.gregory
Posted - 05 Aug 2011 : 10:08:43 AM A loan can be a godsend to both parties or a total nightmare. Many years ago I applied to loan a really lovely mare from Scotland (before the days of emails) and we phoned and corresponded and then when it came to the fine detail the owner said the mare had to go out from 12.00 noon to 4.00pm every day. I explained that I was at work and my horses went out at 7.00am and came in at 6.00pm unless the weather was really foul (freezing rain/snowing a blizzard etc.) and then they stayed in. They had hay out in the fields in winter and had a short feed morning and evening (unless they had too much grass and were watching their weight) but she was adamant about the turnout and so I didn't get the mare. I could have lied and she would never have known but I would have felt bad about it. I am sure the mare would have been very happy out all day but the owner wasn't.
I have loaned with great success but also lost my most valuable and precious mare who was on breeding loan because the owner was too lazy to get up and check her during the night near to her due date and she died horribly all on her own in agony with a stuck foal. I won't go into details suffice to say what happened was so awful that I had nightmares for months afterwards.
Barbara
FullCircle
Posted - 05 Aug 2011 : 06:56:53 AM It's a shame that some people do horrendous things - but not all loans go bad! I have Sammy thru a loan agreement and then he was offered to me to buy. It was because of a really bad sale to start with that went really wrong that he was only offered to me to loan initially (he was never going to be for sale again). Anyway, over a year later and I have my dream horse. :)
I would certainly advise though - a very detailed loan agreement!!!
hazelcat74
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 11:10:00 PM Well after my recent loan disaster which I posted about on here I would never ever do it again. At least I got my horse back and she wasn't stolen/sold on but she now has big issues with loading and has lost trust in people due to how they treated her, and I did everything I could to make sure they were suitable. It is a nightmare.
Pasch
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 10:45:55 PM What a nightmare!I would not be able to give my horse on loan as I would never be able to trust anybody after him.I am sure there are people out there who can keep horses better than I do,but how to be sure?
Pop
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 10:26:22 PM I have a pony on loan, just the best little princess your could ever imagine. I was really torn, I didn't want to loan, but she was just so so good, I took the plunge. The pony is a testament to her owner, who had her from a youngster, I can tell so well from how she is that her owner has given her a wonderful life. I thought I could persuade her to sell, but I seriously doubt that now, she may not want her back, but she wants to hold on to her, to make sure she is always safe, and I so respect that.
I have asked the owner to come look, because I wanted to be sure I was doing what she wanted, and for her to give me advise, because she knows her pony well; and I'm probably the most irritating loaner in the history of loaners. Although I try so hard not to bother her, I'm still running at the rate of 1 question a week.
I even showed the owner a public footpath next to her paddock, and reminded her that she could walk down there any time she pleased. If you loan out a pony/horse which can only be seen by appointment; or you only want the owner to turn up by appointment; Don't do it.
RUTHIE
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 9:51:46 PM I loaned a TB out to a girl. She wouldn't let me visit him after making arrangements to do so, she would backout at the last minute. My husband and I sneaked to where he lived one night and found him in the dead of winter, alone in a field with no hay.Next day we went again to find him in a stable not big enough for a pony ( he was 16.1). Asked her to remove rug and he looked like a toast rack. I have never brought a horse home so quick. It took me 6 weeks to get him right. My lesson learnt was I trusted her to look after him and belived her that everything was ok. Alarm bells went off with when there was an excuses why we couldn't see him. Aferwards there was then the abusive phonecalls from her family to deal with. Never again will that happen.:-(
precious
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 11:46:14 AM OMG What a loop hole!!! poor owner and poor new owners who bought the horse believing it was legit! Where do you stand as a new buyer?
Hope this case can be sorted out. I have got a loan agreement for my Rebel but i delivered him on two week trial first before getting this signed. I guess im lucky as i knew of the person.
Pop
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 10:56:40 AM We did think of going down some 'route', because the lady who sold her to me was a 'dealer', but the bill of sale was from the girl who was apparently the owner, and she was 15 years old, going onto horses apparently, phew, aarrrh.
But I was so so excited, such an amazing horse, but I thought they were a bit strange for selling such a quality horse for a price much lower than what she was worth.
Thinking back, there were clues - the 'owner' would not ride her to show her for me, they went to get another girl to ride her - the stallion in a very very small stable with badly overgrown hooves - the fact that they told me she had been stabled all winter with only 2 hours turnout a week, and she looked grass kept to me - apparently regularly ridden but (hooves that needed shoes) no shoes on and no holes showing recently taken off. Lots of clues that I was not being told the truth, but of course, none that I was buying a stolen horse.
Pasha
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 10:44:46 AM Pop so glad to hear you were able to keep your mare! It really makes me mad that people can get away with doing this type of thing and the police don't seem to be able to stop them (judging by the srticle). Lots of useful info there not only for loaning, but for purchasing too!
Pop
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 10:36:21 AM It happened to me, I bought a horse in all good faith and when looking at the passport some 9 months later noticed that the last 3 years Vac stamps were from a completely different area of the country, so how could, and why would, the people I bought her from take her, three years running, to a different part of the country to have her vacs?
I tracked down the the previous person from the details on the passport; and phoned her. It took a while for her to understand what I was saying because she had been receiving regular updates from the 'home'. She was very very very annoyed indeed; and when she calmed down, we doubled checked it was the same horse and it was. I sent her the original 'for sale advert' which I had responded to, bill of sale, current photo etc etc, and I offered to pay her for the horse, but acknowledged that, if she insisted, I would have no option but to give her over. It turned out that I had bought her only two weeks after she was delivered to the home.
It was the week from hell, that I would have to give her up, but happily, the lady said she that she was very please with the home etc; and gave me an 'official' notice that I could keep her. So it ended happily for both of us; but I'm guessing this is a very rare outcome.
Mags
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 10:33:36 AM You have to be so careful. I recently learnt a big lesson when I loaned my boy to some local showjumpers who are well known at the local shows. I thought I had the perfect home and had regular updates via facebook including videos but ended up having to take him back, I wont go into detail but lets just say I cried when I got him home. But I hold that responsiblity and take the blame. I should have kept a closer eye, never again
Paresh
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 10:22:49 AM OMG poor woman, I have one on loan at the moment, a 17yr old welsh cob, I have had since last May, and her owner came up to visit her this weekend for the first time(we are a few hundred miles apart) but I have kept in touch via Facebook, she see's regular updates and everyone knows that Layla is on loan to me, I dont hide the fact, this weekend at the show Fee was introduced as Layla's owner to everyone we spoke to, how can someone be so heartless to do such a thing. I dont have a loan agreement for Layla, so I could probably do exactly the same as the person in the artacle has done, but I wouldnt. I hope they manage to get their horse back
