| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fee |
Posted - 16 Jun 2011 : 8:34:41 PM
Look at my poor girl still trying to get some REM sleep. Breaks my heart when I'm about to take Polka out and I look into the stable to see how she is before I go.
See all the injuries on her fetlocks and knees when she falls down. She does this when she momentarily drops into REM on her feet and her stifle unlocks. Its also undoing or at least not helping the physio work being done on her back to unlock all the jammed muscles between the vertebrae caused by her falling and catching herself but going into a jack knife along the back whilst doing so.
Really really need to get her able to lie down, which the kinesioligist is saying is coming in the next few cranial osteopath sessions when he will unlock her diaphragm. She believes this is the reason she won't lie down and i can concur with this as she struggles to breathe when she lies down. Her diaphragm has became locked due to her holding herself up with areas which shouldn't have been doing that job.
Sorry if you're not following this, it's long and complicated and doesn't really matter about understanding it, I just need to have a huge let off about her. I think the simplest way to understand it is that she has built up compensation upon compensation for many years due to being left to 'heal' or glue herself together wrongly after whatever happened to her. Almost to the day 3 years ago now it all snapped like the mechanism in a clock that's been wound up too tight. Ever tried to fix those with all the pieces everwhere! That's what we're trying to do.
At the end of the video that scarring you see on her hindquarters (bi-lateral) is the damn reason for all this!! She sustained those horrific injuries when she was 2 (ish) and it likely happened in the transportation from Tersk to Holland. The theory from the cranial osteopath and the kinesiologist is that she fell directly on top of her tail/bottom of spine (her hinds would have went right under her) she would have likely fractured her spine base on this impact. In her panic and struggle to get back up she will have destroyed the stall bars and they are what have caused all the slashing and 'merc badge' shaped scarring you see on her point of hip. As I said it's identical both sides but the wounds have been deeper on the left.
Phew! Sorry, that was a load off. My poor girl.
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Milotkha |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 08:21:10 AM
Big hugs Fee.
Sending get well vibes to Po.
xx |
| Pasch |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 12:39:34 AM
What a complicated lady she is...Hope you find a solution so you can both have some relax,you really deserve it! |
| Fee |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 04:47:52 AM
Hi Pasch, no I don't worry about her running off as that section is gated. I always let her go solo here to allow her to pick the pace and it also allows me to drive/long rein her without the reins to mimic riding as much as possible at this stage. The kinesiologist wants this as it is better for her back as we are trying to keep those muscles between the vertebrae in the middle of her back from going back into that locked position. During any ungated sections I do keep a hold of her.
Yes I did try to stable her but she got so stressed I feared it would do more harm than good! Even with the others next door she was standing at the back of the stable, neck arched, feet all dancing looking at the stable door and saying 'I will jump it! I mean it! I'm going to jump, you see me getting ready?!' I'm sure she wouldn't have it's just her way of making sure she's heard loud and clear 
She loves going into the stable to chill but if you try to shut a door she's off! It's always something I can retry though but when she is in better health and more able to cope with any initial stresses to the change. When she got an abscess and had to be kept in I fenced off all the concrete area that the stables sit on and kept all 3 of them on it and the stables, letting the other two out when I was there. That worked well and at least I know I've got a short term system of keeping her in if needs be. However it's far from ideal as it's falling on the concrete that's the big worry so she had to be booted.
Fee
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| Pasch |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 11:18:10 PM
Bless her,she looks so sweet and responsible walking all by herself(aren't you afraid she might get scared of something and run off?)
I remember some time ago you wanted to try to stable her at night with the other two next door so she could see them to see if then she would be relaxed enough to lay down,did you try that?didn't work? |
| Fee |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 4:32:45 PM
Hope you don't mind yet another video  . I don't have broadband at home anymore and do everything via this phone but can't upload photos, hence all the videos, sorry.
I just want you all to see Po 'awake' and it lifts my heart when I get her out and she seems to enjoy it. I want to share that too. Her walk this afternoon
Oops, two videos actually, couldn't keep filming whilst closing the gate or you'd be getting feet and up noses and all sorts
Fee
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| Fee |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 2:07:43 PM
No worries Yvonne, not offended at all, it's an open forum with loads of different experiences and viewpoints.
Thing is she does live a natural life in that she's not stabled and just roams around the field. I guess I'm so far down this road with this 'team' who believe she can come good and sort her structure that I've got to stay on it until she's either fixed, can't be fixed, I think it's the wrong road or she's telling me it's the wrong road.
The day may well come that I do just boot her and leave her. But I suspect and fear that if I do she will gradually return to the point I was at with her a year and a half ago when I had left her and basically she was giving up before my eyes. That was when and how I found her 'team'. I have to exhaust this road but I'm not going at it blindly and without constant listening to my horse. She tells me loud and clear at all times. It's actually when I forget to listen to her things feel and go wrong.
Fee |
| proctorclaire |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 11:47:57 AM
I feel for you and your horse. I think this is the problem we are having with my mare. Compensating after compensating. No matter what physio she gets her muscles just go back to how they were. I often wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of it. |
| CINDERS |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 11:30:31 AM
This is probably going to get me hated but whilst I understand your need to help her are all these "experts" really for her.
I am a great believer in alternative medicine but it seems to me that if she could be allowed to be a horse and just mooch about in a field with good grass she would be a lot more relaxed, less liable to hurt herself is she falls and just generally happier which would IMO help her to heal both mentally and physically and give you time to regroup and review the options.
I really do applaud your dedication but sometimes we have look within ourselves and do what is best for the horse. it is natural to be eanting to be doing something to help but not always the right course of action
I am sorry if this offends but as you are probably aware I also have a Polianka daughter and do speak from experience, since she has been allowed a natural life and good normal foods she is 26 going on 3 and certainly a happier horse for it. She came to us with a "damaged" hock probably from her racing days. If she is kept in she gets pain.
If it were me I would try a magnetic rug but would withdraw all the other stuff and see what happens. Maybe that makes me bad but I can only tell you what has happened with Derjava.
Yvonne |
| Qui Gon Jinn |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 10:27:40 AM
So sorry Fiona to read about Po's current status. From your last emails, I thought she was really on the mend 
As others have said you really are to be congratulated in all your endevours with Po and I'm 99% certain that I wouldn't have been able to continue on with everything you've done for her so far. Po is so lucky to have found such a wonderful owner. Just remember about your own health, you wont be much good to her if your end up exhausted to the point of not being able to function yourself.
You must be mentally tired to the point of distraction and I do feel for you. Fingers crossed that suddenly there will be a break through for Po and you can both get some much needed relief xx |
| Fee |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 08:58:08 AM
Thank you for taking the time to reply everyone. I really do appreciate it. I'm feeling better and a bit more positive since telling you all it's hard and I'm not coping too well! Not sure if that's a coincidence or a result of that. It is hard when you do the horses alone and no-one at home to moan to so it's you I guess AL peeps
Touchofblue and dee thanks for your advice/experience. I had a quick look at Bowen and I think it does sound very like the work the cranial osteopath does? She has a 'team' of ppl on her case. There is the Kinesiologist, the Cranial Osteopath and her Physio who gives her mctimoney and shiatzu. From what I can tell in knowing her they are good. The problem is, well as previously said the problem is getting everyone there right when she needs them and everyone keeping in constant communication. Not always easy. When there is a break from either member of her team, she slips backwards so quickly.
Incase anyone is wondering I tried to find a good definition of what a cranial osteopathy is because it does sound scary and it's so not! Quite amazing the response from the horse. If you have any problem or worry with your horse and you are lucky enough to have an equine cranial osteopath in your area (we have none here in Scotland) please give them a go. But don't expect any leg swinging or bone crunching actions which I'm sure are just to look good for the paying owner.
What is a Cranial Osteopathy
Cranial osteopaths are trained to feel a very subtle, rhythmical shape change that is present in all body tissues. This is known as Involuntary Motion or Cranial Rhythm. This movement is of very small amplitude, therefore it takes practitioners with a very finely developed sense of touch to feel it. The rhythm was first described by Dr. William Sutherland in the early 1900s, and its existence was confirmed in a series of laboratory tests in the 1960s and 1970s (Sutherland Society 2007).
The stresses and strains of the body’s everyday movement cause tensions which may disrupt its Involuntary Motion. Cranial Osteopaths examine these irregularities in the context of the patient’s previous history. Practitioners then use their palpatory skills, that is their acute sense of touch, to help the body release these stresses and strains through its tissues and return to a state of optimum health and function.
Fee
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| Patriot |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 03:20:03 AM
So sorry to hear about your girl Fee, what a nightmare, it must be really hard trying to stay positive and motivated through all of this. I really cant be any help, but im sure Po appreciates everything you are doing for her. Pats best friend has narcolepsy and it can be scary to watch! {big hugs} |
| Touchofblue |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 11:35:05 PM
Possibilities for relaxation therapy
Equine Shiatsu--Liz Eddy in your area I think
Equine Touch--Sue Grout is amazing
Bowen--not sure who to recommend in your area
I have watched all 3 types of therapy and been very impressed
With the Equine Touch Sue will teach you to do the basics yourself. |
| dee |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 11:13:13 PM
Dear Fee, Only just seen your discussion, so don't know all the in's and out's, but wondered if your team of experts had tried Bowen my no longer with us gelding had a strange turn back in 2004 went into the horsebox fully fit endurance horse came out a wobbling dazed boy, we never knew what had happened to him, all we could think of was a speck of blood on his neck (sting) or he had banged his head maybe (axis). We got him home he wobbled down the ramp reared & collapsed, he then spent 4/5 hours staggering up & down, eventually with lots of jabs and patient by us he finally stayed up, although looked like he had been hit by a bus. This was the start of many months of healing and other set backs, he was tight as a drum and never lay down for months. Vets wanted to take him to Leahurst but we didn't want to travel him. As vets medicine wasn't getting him anywhere, we tried alternative and the lady who was treating him brought a lady who wasn't used to horses but did Bowen on humans. After one session of this his tight frame & muscles rippled after about 2/3 more sessions he was much more supple and finally got down in his stable and even started to roll again, although he never regained his co-ordination, so wasn't safe to ride as he could trip. He stayed with us retired from endurance & ridden until he was nearly 22 when internal tumours took him away from me.
Just a thought I have never seen anything like the way this lady hardly touched him but you could see all his muscles twitch and ripple and how relaxing it was for him, you could see the release of tension from his face & eyes it was amazing.
Hope you find a suitable outcome for your horse.
Dee |
| Fee |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 7:39:25 PM
Today was a mix of good and bad. Good is I took her a walk and she was quite forward and happy about it. I also gave her her back stretches when we got back and a massage/wash with some muscle soothing stuff which sent her into a fit of shivering! Big panic getting her towel dried, so that was a bit of a disaster, but no harm done.
Then later I manage to capture her sleep standing again and I've not managed to record her doing this. She had got her butt propped up against the wall as usual to stop her falling back but instead she starts sliding down the wall and is almost sitting like a dog.
Fee |
| Callisto |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 9:32:54 PM
Is it possible to give her massage to aid her lymphatic system, rather than try to get her moving, since it is obviously painful for her? Not that I am an expert but I know you can do this for humans. I googled it, and there are various websites referring to equines, I don't know how helpful they will be, but according to one, it is fine for the owner to do it but anyone else needs permission from your vet. Apparently it involves gentle stroking motions rather than anything invasive.
I'm glad that there is positive news about Po's treatments, and hope that there is genuinely light at the end of the tunnel. |
| Fee |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 9:14:56 PM
I wish I could 'speak' and explain everything as it's so hard trying to explain all the details via writing and hard typing it, there being so much and it takes me ages using this tiny keyboard on my phone!
Anyway it still gets it off my chest so to speak. Thing is they ARE all helping Po, each and every one of them. The problem and the reason I end up feeling like I do now is due to many things, the main ones being this is a long sorting process as she fundamentally has a structure problem and as quick as they are trying to keep on top of it's just not enough to give her a huge stride forward. She really needs an experienced equine cranial osteopath. As lovely and talented as my guy is he is a human cranial osteopath and bless him for doing this for us but he is really quite afraid of horses. What a baptism of fire he faces as Po's problems are most complex.
The other problem is the kinesiologist. Not that she's a problem, she's brilliant and she is the leader in all this. I get whichever expert she tells me Po needs at that time and I give her the feeds she tells me to give her. When we communicate very regulary everything is moving forward, even if it's baby steps I can still see improvement. But the kinesiologist runs a rescue centre, her father in law had a stroke, she has been I'll, etc etc, all the usual life things which cause us to break communication and that's when Po begins to deteriorate as her needs can change in just a few days.
I just hope I can get to talk to her ASAP. Will keep trying!
I think and feel her lymphatic and entire system is moving like a slug right now. She's bloated with fluid in certain areas so I need to get it moving by getting her moving!! But when I try to get her exercised she's foot sore, the next day she's lame, she really doesn't want to go out and it ends up being such a negative experience for both of us I could cry. Should I force her out? Do I let her stand about like a beached whale? I just don't know what to do for the best anymore.
Fee
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| Callisto |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 7:53:17 PM
Fee, I am so sorry that you are so worried about Po and so down. I think Pop and Zan are right, you are obviously exhausted, and very worried. Easier said than done, but try and get some decent sleep - I use sominax when my insomnia gets too bad, it's not perfect but it helps. If you are feeling better in yourself then you will be in a better position to make the right choices for Po. Take care of yourself, as well as your lovely girls. |
| Zan |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 6:17:48 PM
I would try to relax, step back and think long and hard before you send her away anywhere. I too thought things were going well from your previous posts and am sad to hear they aren't. You have been trying so hard to help her, and you have been so enthusiastic about all the people helping her with you, but if she isn't getting better maybe you should try to be objective about them all--this isn't meant to be critical of any of them, and certainly not of you, but if it isn't working maybe you should rethink, and try to sort out what might still help from what won't.
Personally, I don't think lack of sleep would make a previously sweet natured horse grumpy, but I think pain might. I had a very old mare who couldn't lie down to sleep for her last few years ( I've mentioned her before in threads about Po)and she never, ever changed character and was never grumpy. |
| Fee |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 5:42:40 PM
I know, I think sometimes I try to make it seem more positive than it is so that helps me and her to keep positive and sometimes I think it really is all going well and im genuinely positive. Maybe I too am tired and that makes me feel down but I just feel so drained and exhausted. Thank goodness we stop for hols next week, dont think I could last much longer! She has blood on her fetlocks tonight and I'm sitting her writing this on my phone!! Will go clean her up in a mo though, promise.
Some time ago the kinesiologist offered to take her and nurse her back to health with her expert team but I didn't want her to go as it just didn't feel good and besides that she's down in Lampeter and I had to get her down there and I don't even have a trailer! I've contacted her again to see if she can still go (limited spaces as she's a rescue centre) If she can I think I need to give it serious thought and try to borrow a trailer. I've given it everything I have. At one point I even had aspirations of riding her again! Now I really couldn't care less about riding her. In fact I dont want to. I want her to be a happy field ornament and live to a ripe old age.
Sorry, think that was another big moan!
Fee |
| Kharidian |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 5:18:49 PM
So sorry to hear this - your previous posts sounded much more positive; I thought you & your team were on top of it now? Poor Po looks SO tired.
Caryn
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| shah |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 1:50:03 PM
Have pm'd you  |
| Fee |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 1:10:35 PM
Thanks Linda, will check them out.
Shah I know you fully understand the emotions and frustrations going through this and I do miss not being able to 'compare notes' with you. I really don't think it's a coincidence that Mush and Po seemed to have the same problems, both imported, both injured in the same area. I believe they herd and treat them like cattle on the Tersk - Holland run (hopefully not now) and why would the transporters care, they are only a number with a $ sign above their head. Can you imagine how that wagon was drove that she got that injured  I can't really think on it and imagine what she went through. Luckily those Tersk horses are so damn tough.
Pop I know! I know! Too much, too intense I woke this morning and convinced myself it was Saturday and I could lie a little longer, no such luck! I am tired too I admit and rarely get a full nights sleep.
It's the not knowing if she'll get better and the constant worry/drain in the back of your mind of what if she never lies down?? She can't maintain that indefinently. She is already so grumpy and that alone is heartbreaking to see as she is normally the sweetest horse in the world. I guess anyone would be that grumpy without having had a deep sleep for more than a year and a half. It hurts though as she tells everyone to get lost that goes near her, even me sometimes now 
Fee
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| TanyanChewy |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 12:46:59 PM
Fee, I'm so sorry to hear about Po's condition and am sending lots of vibes that she feels better soon. She is however extremely lucky to have a mummy so dedicated to her and I'm sure she knows that x Have some of these
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| Arachnid |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 10:07:02 AM
Poor little Po. Sorry to hear that shes no better after all the treatment shes had. |
| Pop |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 09:42:28 AM
I've said this before to you Fee, and I'll keep saying it. You have spent so long nursing Po, the ups and downs, even daily ones - that you will not know the great toll it takes on you until she is better. Your dedication, love and care for her is nothing short of amazing. But you MUST NOT forget to look after yourself. Again, you will not realise how the worry drags you down until you can stop worrying.
Will someone tell her, shes ignoring me. |
