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T O P I C R E V I E W
Vik1
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 01:28:41 AM Hi,
I will openly admit I know hee haw about the bloodlines of arabs. I know you get Crabbet, Polish and Egyptian arabs. Is there any more?
What is the difference between them? I mean does one type have different characteristics from the others?
Thanks Vicki
10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Vik1
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 8:39:48 PM Many thanks to everyone. Looks like Ive got alot of reading and swotting to do!
Ill have a look on ebay and amazon to see what i can get.
lisa rachel
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 7:21:46 PM Thanks Barbara! In fact I was responding to your comment re post Skowronek Crabbets. It was Cate who perceived my comments as ''Egyptian Bashing''... which I certainly didn't intend... as so many Arab horses of all bloodlines trace to Egyptians, this would constitute 'Arab bashing' some thing I can safely say that I am not, nor ever would be guilty of ! There may be modern trends that I don't like but I would never disparage the blood or origins of any Asil horse..
In fact I think, Minhe, that Barbara included the Blunt desert breds in her comment ..''others purchased in the desert by the Blunts'' ie the mares that you mention. But as the vast majority of SE horses were imported from outside Egypt anyway, it is just a matter of when and by whom... Abbas Pasha, Mohammed Ali or Lady Blunt via Crabbet.... (amazingly spelt Crabbett in the AHS show schedule BTW!)
Apart from Asil horses that 'never left' in Syria, Lebanon and Peninsula Arabia, the Davenports are another interesting group not related 'directly' to any other major group.
Minhe, thanks... I will read 'War horse to Show Horse', it must be one of the very few Arab books in English or French that I haven't read... the title put me off the Arab is so much MORE than just a show horse, not that there is anything wrong with showing ...of course, but it only allows a few of the Arab's many qualities to be appreciated! 'Show horse' seems such a sad, limited way of describing the Arab breed. On the book front, I understand that there is a new one from America coming out in June by Edouard Aldaddah, Jean Craver et al and that a book on Arabs by King Abdallah , the current King Abdallah's Grandfather is expected to be translated into English! Cheers Lisa
MinHe
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 6:41:41 PM
Originally posted by barbara.gregory
"also many so called straight Egyptians trace to Crabbet horses"
Lisa, the Se who trace to Crabbet horses only do so as many Crabbets were the Sheik Obeyd horses and others purchased in the desert by the Blunts. SEs can only trace to the Crabbet horses who were SE, none of the rest e.g. Skowronek.
Barbara, I know what you are getting at, but this statement is not correct.
There are many SEs who trace back to Crabbets who were NOT from Sheyk Obeyd lines, but were acquired directly by the Blunts from the tribes in Arabia - horses such as Rodania and Queen of Sheba. The Royal Agricultural Society made an importation of pure Blunt lines from Crabbet in the 1920s, which introduced these non-Sheyk Obeyd bloodlines into what is now known as Straight Egyptian lines.
In addition to the books already mentioned, I would highly recommend Gladys Brown Edwards' "War Horse to Show Horse" - harder to find in the UK but a concise introduction to ALL the main breeding groups (including America) without any nonsense. In fact, if you were to buy only ONE book on the Arab horse, this should be it.
The other books turn up regularly on ebay UK - ebay USA would be a better bet for the GBE.
..was this the one Barbara? I am still a bloodlines numpty, but can usually distinguish one type from another (just!) I became more interested after my mare retired & I started to trace her breeding. Its all facinating stuff & theres a wealth of knowledge on here. As for bloodlines, all are stunning, have their strengths & weaknesses...but for me its Crabbet all the way! I found this thread intrigueing too...somewhat off topic but there are some real pearls of wisdom to be had http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=13253
barbara.gregory
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 6:07:51 PM I didn't for a minute think you were "Egyptian bashing" Lisa, I was just clarifying your statement for Vik 1 as she said that she didn't know much about the bloodlines. Many years ago I too knew nothing about the bloodlines! Still no expert. To sum up, many Crabbets can also carry the label of "Straight Egyptian" but certainly not all of them.
There was a thread last year giving the perceived characteristics of the different lines with some very good comments, can someone remember what it was called or put up a link?
Barbara
lisa rachel
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 12:32:07 PM OMG!!! I was not Egyptian bashing!! I like all Arabs worthy of the name, I have no axe to grind, I was referring to a book, not a bloodline!!
I just nipped into the house to ... too late!... edit this post. What you say is true regarding Skowronek Barbara of course, they were 'Blunt' not 'Wentworth' Crabbets, ie DB or SE and all the more valuable for that in my view. I did not in any way mean to denigrate Egyptian bloodlines.
As for Judith Forbis, the information on SEs in the last say 150 years is extremely interesting and I assume, accurate, it is more the early part of the book that I was referring to. I devour books on Arabs but it took me three goes over several years to get as far as the second part of the book as so many statements were 'questionable' (to be polite) that I just kept putting it aside. I recently read a review, written at the time of the publication of this book which sums it up very well. I will not persue it here as my aim was not to cause trouble but lets just say that I agreed with the reviewer .
All beside the point, it is well worth reading the book and I did not mean to cause offence, I have edited my post to remove my personal view.
I agree Centaur, Margaret Greely's book is an excellent simple overview as well. The Egyptian horses are also a mixture of imported bloodlines... imported into Egypt from the desert, though I take your point. There are still Asil desert breds in fact, outside Egypt.
Vik the above will illustrate how strongly people feel about bloodlines!!
barbara.gregory
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 11:32:43 AM "also many so called straight Egyptians trace to Crabbet horses"
Lisa, the Se who trace to Crabbet horses only do so as many Crabbets were the Sheik Obeyd horses and others purchased in the desert by the Blunts. SEs can only trace to the Crabbet horses who were SE, none of the rest e.g. Skowronek.
Cate
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 11:30:03 AM Rather unfair to post "The Classic Arabian Horse by Judith Forbis gives some very interesting history on Egyptian bloodlines but is (imo) far from scholarly and contains some laughable contentions." considering she bred among some of the finest Egyptian horses being the owner of Ansata Stud. She was and is a lady with a wealth of information and knowledge garnered from actually living and researching in the Orient.
What also must be said is that although many Egyptian's trace to Crabbet blood this is because the EAO bought back some of their own stock, so essentially Egyptian. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I do so hate this Egyptian Arab horse bashing.
Centaur
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 11:22:30 AM If you want an easy to read starter guide to the history of the Arabian & its various bloodlines then Arabian Exodus by Margaret Greely is excellent. I find bloodlines fascinating but the more I read the more I conclude that the only pure bloodline is the Egyptian. Crabbet, Polish, Russian etc are all ultimately a mixture of imported bloodlines and are not pure in themselves - but still great fun to learn about!
Angela
lisa rachel
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 11:07:53 AM There are some good books ( and some dodgy ones!)... 'The Crabbet Arabian Stud , it's history and influence' by Archer Pearson and Covey is the definitive book on Crabbet, excellent and comprehensive. Erica Schiele's thorough book 'The Arab Horse in Europe' gives an excellent overview of the origins of the bloodlines in European countries, very well worth reading, out of print but available second hand. The Classic Arabian Horse by Judith Forbis gives some very interesting history on Egyptian bloodlines . There are many more of course but those should give a good overview of the background. For today's bloodlines and 'types' it is best to refer to organisations and specific studs such as the Crabbet Organisation , the publications of the big Polish studs, Tersk,Babolna and the Pyramid Society etc Of course they all trace to Bedouin horses from Arabia (barring a few doubtful horses in some bloodlines... this is a can of worms that I will not open here!), they are mostly inter-related anyway eg Crabbet would not exist without Egyptian Arabians and also many so called straight Egyptians trace to Crabbet horses. Russian horses have much Crabbet blood etc etc. A good Arab (wherever he happened to be bred) is essentially a good war horse who by virtue of selection over millenia for supreme function from a small and pure gene pool is also the most beautiful horse this world has ever seen (imo)! Cheers Lisa
!
the Arab is so much MORE than just a show horse, not that there is anything wrong with showing ...of course, but it only allows a few of the Arab's many qualities to be appreciated! 'Show horse' seems such a sad, limited way of describing the Arab breed. 
) I became more interested after my mare retired & I started to trace her breeding. Its all facinating stuff & theres a wealth of knowledge on here.
