| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| george |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 8:09:06 PM
I am trying to use the "Kelly Marks" "Perfect Manners" tip with Nabil, which is to scream and shout and wave your hands around like a lunatic for about a minute, (I was doing it wrong before as I only made one little scream)  he is much better than last year and he certainly knows that he shouldn't nip, he just looks at me like I am insane as do the other liveries if they hear me, lol. I just want to make him realise that he is not allowed to put his mouth on me at all, as I don't want him to get back into the biting "Game". He is quite funny, although I never let him see me smirking at him, he waits for my back to be turned cleaning the stable, creeps closer and if I don't turn and look at him he will nip at me, a quick "don't you dare" is all it takes so he knows what he's doing! but sometimes when we take him out for training he will put his mouth on me, sort of testing me. What tips do you have or has worked for you in the past??? just curious really  |
| 22 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 24 Feb 2011 : 11:15:27 PM
It is a bit similar to something I do with my golden cross stallion - he initially "asked" me to do it. He loves me to put my thumb between his top lip and his gum and stroke him, preferably while I am kissing and cuddling him although he asked me not to mention that last bit as he would lose all street cred!
I want to try it on one of the other stallions as he is very rough; there is no nastiness in him but he just doesn't seem to understsnd what it is to be gentle.
Thanks for the info.
Barbara |
| moonlight |
Posted - 24 Feb 2011 : 6:04:25 PM
Happy to post it on here, it was just that yesterday my head was full of cold and I couldn't think straight!
I have found it very useful with young or older horses. The idea is to work an acupressure point which is at the midpoint on the gum high up where the gum and lip meet. This acupressure point stimulates the limbic system in the brain, which is responsible for learning and emotions - so it is both calming and conducive to learning.
Firstly wet your hand as this helps protect the horse's mucus membrane. Basically you steady the horse's head by holding the headcollar with one hand (if you know the horse well you can work with them without one) and slipping the whole of your hand into the horse's mouth in front of the teeth. Slide side to side keeping your index finger well up against the point where the gum and lip meet - important to keep your hand safe and to work the right point!
Initially the horse will probably find this strange and may object by sticking his head up. Persevere until there is a moment when he lowers his head and\or becomes more still. Take your hand out and give him a few moments rest.
Then repeat the gum rubbing - probably for around 5 minutes in total. Each time you are likely to have a more accepting response- some horses end up with their heads down by their knees. If you can do this twice a day for around 5 - 10 minutes you should see quite a change in behaviour within a week or so.
Oh yes and remember to breathe while you are doing it - always a tall order when trying something new! But if you enjoy doing it the chances are your horse will enjoy it too. The owners I have taught it to have found themselves being calmed by it as well. So have a go and have fun!
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| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 11:11:43 PM
I am sure we would all like to hear about the "mouth and gum work", moonlight, but if you would rather pm me than post it on here please do, very interested.
Barbara |
| moonlight |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 1:37:24 PM
Another method to consider is mouth and gum work as used in shiatsu and Tellington Touch therapies. If anyone wants further info on this please feel free to pm me. Clicker training can also be helpful - it all depends on the horse and the specific problem. |
| alijo |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 8:58:33 PM
lots of useful tips i have a 10 month gelding who thinks hes a colt and bits all the time but i have read this and there are some tips i think i will try and use, this is very helpful |
| george |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 8:13:27 PM
Originally posted by ZanOriginally posted by georgeZan, I am not totally novice with horses as I have had them since I was 4yrs old and at 40 now I think I understand that it would be a huge change and not very nice for him which is why he is not in 24/7 and has as much freedom to wander as is possible which can vary from day to day. Why oh why do people on here jump down your throat all accusing when you post a simple little enquiry to get a thread which I found interesting going?...it's as though you are just waiting to find someone who is cruel or mistreating their horses??? You have certainly misunderstood but I take offence at being "jumped" on no wonder people are afraid to post on here  I don't know how much more carefully I could have worded it and no way did I jump on you. Nor am I just waiting to find someone who is cruel or mistreating their horses. However, what I do do, is try and understand what is causing a particular behaviour, which is usually the best way of finding a sustainable solution, rather than just trying to "fix it", without understanding why it is happening. "as much freedom to wander as is possible which can vary from day to day" does not sound to me as if he is getting turnout for a decent length of time with his friends on a regular basis, so I would still say that is what is causing the biting-- frustration at this huge change in his freedom.
Hmmm!! I think you still haven't read my post properly, as stated he is much better and not biting any more, I JUST WAN'T TO HAVE A FEW MORE TRICKS UP MY SLEEVE IN CASE OF A RELAPSE!! and thought it would be nice to hear of other peoples experiences and tips....that's it. And as you are insinuating he doesn't get enough turnout without actually knowing the facts I find you quite rude, I am completely happy with the way I look after all my horses and am not going to rise to a tit for tat on line argument, I shall just be childish and just disregard your opinion  LOL |
| georgiauk |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 6:34:48 PM
I have one of these although as he's got older he is getting better.
Things I have tried include jiff lemon, water pistol, screaming, growling, squealing, flashing a hand in front of him and on occasion a reactionary slap ! I haven't tried biting him back as I'm just not that quick enough for it to be effective . I do think the punishment needs to be instant and quick, on a like for like basis !
I don't do tit bits as a rule with Christmas being the exception ( stockings from granny) but one thing I do think in his case perhaps made the matter worse was giving him lots of toys as a foal !
Over the years I have learned to ignore it mostly and not react to his 'habit' and he is much improved. I do find making a buzzing noise works for him and snapping my fingers at his nose & if he gets too close I give a whisker a sharp pull; imitating the electric fence works wonders.
He now gets one treat a day at his worst time which is 1st thing in the morning, hay's gone, he's bored and wants out. He's given a treat once his head collar is on and I now find he stands all be it a bit impatiently while his hat is put on in anticipation of his treat ..... No Nipping |
| Vik1 |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 6:12:03 PM
Didnt realise the screaming hysterical woman act was a Kelly marks thing, lol. I do that too but its not a conscious thing. Storm really isnt a nipper. He has tried it a couple of times when hes annoyed with me like when Im pulling his mane and hes having a strop. My reaction is to shout in a high pitched voice 'dont you do that to me, I hate it', shake my fists (not hit him) and then do big snort. he jumps back and has this look on his face like 'oh my god your a mad woman!' Everyone laughs at the shocked look on his face. |
| Zan |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 5:48:04 PM
Originally posted by georgeZan, I am not totally novice with horses as I have had them since I was 4yrs old and at 40 now I think I understand that it would be a huge change and not very nice for him which is why he is not in 24/7 and has as much freedom to wander as is possible which can vary from day to day. Why oh why do people on here jump down your throat all accusing when you post a simple little enquiry to get a thread which I found interesting going?...it's as though you are just waiting to find someone who is cruel or mistreating their horses??? You have certainly misunderstood but I take offence at being "jumped" on no wonder people are afraid to post on here
I don't know how much more carefully I could have worded it and no way did I jump on you. Nor am I just waiting to find someone who is cruel or mistreating their horses. However, what I do do, is try and understand what is causing a particular behaviour, which is usually the best way of finding a sustainable solution, rather than just trying to "fix it", without understanding why it is happening.
"as much freedom to wander as is possible which can vary from day to day" does not sound to me as if he is getting turnout for a decent length of time with his friends on a regular basis, so I would still say that is what is causing the biting-- frustration at this huge change in his freedom. |
| misterei |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 3:21:30 PM
Ours only nip when people give them titbits, when we speak firmly with the liveries that insist on it the biting and head butting stops.
One lady we bought three of our mares from was always titbitting her horses and if any bit her, including her stallions, she would quickly pull a whisker or two around their muzzle. They stopped immediately, and she wasn't tugging hard, just establishing a pattern. She could then carry on titbitting without being nibbled.
I tried this the other week when one of the liveries was interferring (they seem to think it is a petting zoo and they can feed anybodys horse). I was very gentle but just a tiny pull on two or three whiskers was enough to stop her immediately. It is not to hurt them, simple communication.
Good luck with which ever technique you settle on. |
| george |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 2:48:33 PM
Zan, I am not totally novice with horses as I have had them since I was 4yrs old and at 40 now I think I understand that it would be a huge change and not very nice for him which is why he is not in 24/7 and has as much freedom to wander as is possible which can vary from day to day. Why oh why do people on here jump down your throat all accusing when you post a simple little enquiry to get a thread which I found interesting going?...it's as though you are just waiting to find someone who is cruel or mistreating their horses??? You have certainly misunderstood but I take offence at being "jumped" on no wonder people are afraid to post on here
Centaur, he won't be gelded "Because" he is a colt! there are of course other reasons why I would do so but this isn't one of them, phew!!! why do I feel like I have to defend myself now?? |
| Centaur |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 2:25:56 PM
A little operation usually works wonders!
Angela |
| Zan |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 1:34:20 PM
Originally posted by georgeTomos, at the moment he has just come in from 24/7 turnout with company, and I believe this is why he has behaved so well of late, since coming in he has company in the adjoining stable where they can touch and nip each other, as I said it's not that bad I just want to continue with his progress and have tricks up my sleeve in case the current ones stop working
Sorry, just so I understand, does this mean he was out 24/7 until recently, and he is now stabled 24/7?
If that is the case, and I may have misunderstood,so apologies if I have,but if it is the case, I'm not surprised he is biting because that is a big change, and he must be frustrated.It's unnatural for any horse to be stabled 24/7. |
| george |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 1:15:37 PM
thanks pinkyboots, I really think it is, as he really doesn't like it when I do it, he goes to the other side of the stable and just looks at me, lol but he soon comes back and then I give him a good scratch if he's being polite but I am going to make it a zero tolerance thing, the only problem is (well meaning) friends who go and give him their hands over the stable door  I have told them not to and certainly NO titbits but I'm not there 24/7. I am even more convinced it's working after today as he came over whilst I was mucking out and put his nose on my hand then as I opened my mouth he just stood back looking all sorry I also like the fact that I am not laying my hand (or teeth) on him at all he's not frightened of me or headshy in any way and that's how it should be  I must add that he has never bitten in anger or with his ears back, he is just being a colt but needs my guidance. I am very pleased with his progress though and as I said in my post I just wanted to be nosy about other peoples tips and what has worked for them |
| pinkvboots |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 09:03:12 AM
I agree hitting him will just make him scarred of you, Arabi did this when he was a colt you only had to raise your voice and he knew he was doing wrong, he did bite me on the bum once it really hurt, he is a gelding now but he still loves to chew his lead rope but never ever bites people, I would carry on with what your doing sounds like its working. |
| TAE |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 09:01:37 AM
I did exactly the same with my old mare she only once went to bite me seriously and my instant reaction was to bite her back. A few times when cross she nearly forgot herself, would go to bite, then you would see realisation of what she was doing come over her face, in a cartoon like way(she wasn't the brightest-not an arab)she would them back up a step looking very ashamed.
Unfortunately I've seen people hit horses round the head, best way to make them headshy and agressive.
A quick nip on the neck or ear is closer to how horses dicipline each other. |
| nerissanic |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 01:28:10 AM
sorry, i don't think this will help you and it will probably shock a few people too but this is what i did when i first started looking after a shetland gelding and his welshie friend 6 yrs agoas he was a biter/snapper. his name is toffee but i re-named him snappy for a few weeks as it was constantly. he didn't mean it nastily he was testing me. well, he bit me on top of my head while grooming him the one day and it damn well hurt; my immediate reaction without even really thinking about it was to bite him back as i don't like to hit a horse. the nearest thing was his left ear, so i did and got a mouthful of hair for my troubles - i bit hard enough for him to notice and he did jump. i can honestly say that since that day he has only once more tried to bite me properly. if i think he's up to something now i just have to growl his name and he looks like butter wouldn't melt. i will add i don't normally bite, hit, kick or am nasty to any of my horses as i value their trust and faith in me far too much. toffee will now wander round the field with me when i'm poo-picking and come for a scratch and we will often walk through the field side by side with my hand on his back or rump. i do still have to keep an eye on him though as he loves tipping full buckets of poo over then looks over to see my reaction! anyway, please don't take this the wrong way but i think if i was a horse i would think you'd gone mad too if i saw you screaming and waving your arms about!!(grin!!)and if that was my very sensitive mare she'd never come near me again! good luck with finding a solution nic x |
| george |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 9:13:09 PM
Tomos, at the moment he has just come in from 24/7 turnout with company, and I believe this is why he has behaved so well of late, since coming in he has company in the adjoining stable where they can touch and nip each other, as I said it's not that bad I just want to continue with his progress and have tricks up my sleeve in case the current ones stop working
S.jade, that is a fab idea  might just give him a shock with that one one day if he relapses |
| george |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 9:05:26 PM
Hi Nikki, He is 22mnths old now so I know it's got a lot to do with his age....just want to make sure it's properly addressed before he gets any bigger  had a couple of local people telling me to "give him a hiding" I can't repeat what I told them to do  yes perseverance, but having a few other tips up my sleeve can only help |
| Tomos |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 9:04:59 PM
Hi George, Does Nabil go out with other horses ?
Our older stallions live together and our 2 year old colt is out with a 2 year old Shetland colt, in my experience nipping has never been a problem, because they spend all day playing and nipping each other rather than humans !
Mandy
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| s.jade |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 9:02:37 PM
We have a cured biter 
He broke my mum's wrist, and detached the ligaments and muscle from my arm with his teeth - so he was quite the nipper!
I started carrying a syringe of cold water when I went in with him, and when he even so much as threaened to bite, or even tried to just nibble; squirt his mouth/face with the water.
He was on a zero tolerance, so even thr threat i.e. opening his mouth or trying to hold clothing = water.
It doesn't hurt them at all, but is a short and sharp shock...it works wonders |
| nikki83 |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 8:51:15 PM
Hi George.
How old is Nabil? My little nipper will be 2 in June. He has been much better over the last couple of months.Ive had a fair few bruises from him.
When he has been nipping at me, I give him a pinch on his chest (I think it hurts my fingers more than it hurts him ) but it gives him a bit of a shock. That accompanied with a loud 'NO' seems to have worked for us.
He does try and play with me and he will rest his head on me when im sorting his stable out, he will mess about with my hair but I just give him a warning and he knows not to bother biting me
I think perserverance and consistancy is the key.
Good luck with it.
Nikki x |
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