| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nichole Waller |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 6:39:35 PM
My friends TB mare (age 17) has had 2 bouts of mild colic this week.
The first was on Thursday where she was very restless in the stable (kept spinning round while her owner was trying to groom her) when she got her out of the stable she was slightly tucked up and sweaty at the top corner of her belly. My friend rode her in walk for 30 min ( ) and she was fine after this.
She had it again this morning, but this time she went down in the box a few times and was rolling. When she got up she kept turning to her belly and biting the air. She was tucked up again and sweaty in the same place as before as well as on her shoulders and by her withers.
Question: Can horses get colic from being over rugged..?
This mare has a very fine coat and is always wrapped up in a thick rug. In the really cold weather she has 2 heavy weight rugs on....!
IMO i think she is over rugged. We have had a few mild days and nights with temp not going below 11 deg and she still has the big heavy weight rambo rug on with neck cover done up.....!
The owner is insistent that she is not over rugged and has never had a problem before if she has got too hot (she has been known in the summer to put a heavy weight rug on over night because it's raining and then she has a lay in in the morning and the rug doesn't get taken off until lunch time which by then it has reached 19 deg....! Mare is sweaty but hasn't had colic before..?)
Nothing else has really changed. She has hardly any short feed and plenty of hay and goes out from about 9.00 to 4.00.
The only other possibility is that i have been bringing mine in and then putting them out again 24/7 depending on the weather. Ozzy is stabled next to this mare when he is in. On Thursday when she got colic Ozzy was in, but this morning when she had it Ozzy had been out all night. Maybe the changing of my horses routine is upsetting her...?
Any thoughts as to what could be causing it greatly appreciated. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Nichole Waller |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 9:16:34 PM
Xsara - this mare is an ex racer and the owner does seam to have done exactly what you described above. Don't get me wrong, she does really love and care for the horse. She just does things differently to me.
I would have called the vet the first time and asked for advice over the phone even if they didn't come out. (i did this a few months ago with my mare and checked in with the vet every few hours over the phone)
I do think money is an option for my friend. She has three horses (two she inherited) and she does struggle to keep them all. She will call the vet, but only when she has tried various options herself.
I was really frustrated when it all happened as i would have called the vet straight away, but money is a little easier for me (having a full time job) than it is for my friend.
The horse has been fine since the weekend and hasn't shown any signs of colic.
I do have to be careful how i deal with this 'friend' as we have had huge barney's before where i have tried to be more forceful in what i would do. We are the only two liveries on the yard so we have to get on as we see each other every day. She asked for my opinion in what i would do and i gave it to her. It is her decision if she decides to take it. I know 100% that she would get the vet if the colic had been more serious.
Thank you for all the constructive replies, they have been really helpful.  |
| xsara |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 6:45:28 PM
Some people have different views on how to treat colic. Personally if it were me I would have the vet out sooner rather than later, but i know at the race yard I work the person who is in charge has different views, Yes if it was kicking, thrashing and sweating and working it self up get the vet straight away, But if it is just of colour lying down restless rolling a little but not really distressed he tacks them up and takes them for a walk giving them a couple of bute first and walks them for about 30mins, and they generally pass a dropping, give them some bran and have seen it settle a couple of the horses with out the vet. |
| Zan |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 3:04:59 PM
Eh? I wasn't getting at you,just defending my previous post. I don't imagine for a minute you would have shrugged and walked away if the person hadn't listened to you........ |
| geegee |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 2:57:41 PM
I'm done with all this  |
| Zan |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 2:43:57 PM
geegee there are obviously different ways of dealing with different people in different situations. Softly, softly is the best way--of course---but this "friend" of Nicola Waller's hasn't listened to sound reasonable advice it seems.Far from sitting sadly beside her ill horse as this person you knew did, she is riding the poor horse!!!! It makes me angry to read such things and yes, I would let her know it made me angry. That needn't necessarily mean shouting, but I would not let up till that mare saw a vet, one way or another.
After all---what would you have done if this person had not taken your advice, and had still refused to get the vet---would you have shrugged and walked off, leaving the pony to it's fate???? There are plenty of people who would have reacted to your "less is more" by ignoring you. |
| geegee |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 2:09:16 PM
Perhaps my thoughts are for another thread but I was thinking about this whilst mucking out earlier (as you do  )
Years ago, I had my horses on a livery yard and there was a particular owner with an aged pony. The owner didn't have alot of money but the pony was pretty well cared for.
The pony came down with colic and the owner called the vet who administered painkillers etc. Pony seemed to recover. That night, poor pony could be heard thrashing around in his stable and the owner was contacted. He called the vet again and the vet came out.
A day or two later, the pony colicked again. The owner was upset but said that he still had some pain killers and wasn't going to call the vet. You can imagine the upset on the yard. Other liveries were going up to him and telling that he had to call the vet. Some were very rude to him and were shouting. It all got quite heated. The owner just dug his heels in even more. He didn't like being told what to do which, let's face it, most of us don't - regardless of the situation.
Nobody was winning in this situation, least of all the poor pony who by this time had laid down and wasn't showing any signs of getting up.
I let things cool down and waited for people to clear and then I chose my moment.....I quietly walked up to the stable door to find the owner sitting next to the pony. I stayed very calm and asked if I could come in and sit with him. Within a few minutes the owner got upset and asked me what I would do in this situation. I told him that if the pony was mine, I would ask the vet to come out again, even if it had to be for the last time.
He thanked me and then asked me to sit with his pony whilst he called the vet. As easy as that.
Thankfully, after this visit the pony made a full recovery.
I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes, less is more. |
| garnet |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 1:07:43 PM
I would be inclined to say to her 'Get the vet or I'll ring the ILPH!' (or WHW as they are now known.) It makes me so angry to hear of people who treat their precious horses like this! We would have done anything if we could have saved Autumn Light who died in the closing stages of surgery for a twisted gut and Jim the Cob who died 3 days after surgery for a pedunculated lipoma, the day after we visited him at Leahurst and made plans for him to come home and the same day I received the professional show photograph taken only 3 weeks earlier which is in my sig pics. The ungrateful **************** doesn't deserve her horse! |
| Zan |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 8:53:03 PM
Well I'm afraid I would be a lot more forceful with this owner. I have just read this thread and, like Vera, am horrified that she rode this horse while suspecting colic. I am also horrified that she has not called the vet yet, when the horse is clearly not right. If she was my friend I would be telling her just how horrified I was, and insisting she call the vet.
As has been already said by others, colic is always a potential emergency. I would always call the vet at the very first hint of it. |
| geegee |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 4:48:32 PM
Nichole, I don't envy you being on the same yard as this owner. It must be very frustrating for you. Unfortunately, owners like her are not uncommon. These type of people only ask advice in the hope that you are going to tell them what they want to hear....
I guess you can only comment if she asks you and only then just say something like "if the horse was mine, I would get the vet" Not alot more you can do, sadly. |
| Nichole Waller |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 3:41:47 PM
Thanks everyone for your replies.
The mare is drinking fine (what she always drinks) so i don't think dehydration is the problem.
After me telling her she could be too hot she put a medium weight rug on her Sat night. Sunday morning she definitely wasn't hot, no sweating and she wasn't tucked up. However she was very restless and very difficult to handle (not like her at all really as normally very placid)
She has cut her front foot quite bad ( a slice from the top bulb of the back of the hoof round to the coronet band) from over reaching in the field on Sat (when she was turned out she went mad for about 15 min and just galloped up and down the field).
Owner had great difficulty in handling her (to look at the cut and try and put some cream on it) and eventually put her (or was dragged) to the field. (Which is knee deep in mud....!)
Then last night for some bizarre reason she decided to turn her three horses out overnight (their routine is normally come in over night at fireworks weekend and stay in over night right up until mid March). She had the thick heavy weight rug on with neck cover. It rained heavy most of the night and this morning when she bought her in she was shivering...! We had about 9 deg minimum last night.
I said this morning that maybe she should call the vet as 9 deg isn't really cold and a horse in a thick rug with neck shouldn't be shivering. Maybe she has some sort of virus which might explain the colic...! Also i think the cut on her foot needs looking at and possibly some antibiotics, especially if she is going out in the mud every day...! Owner still not decided weather she needs to call the vet or not.
Unfortunately my advice falls on deaf ears (even though she phones and asks for it...!) so i think i'll just let her get on with it. |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 2:08:17 PM
I also think chewing wood is a problem, mine do this when they have to stay in, and it was after the filly foal had been in the sandschool that she colicked, the next day I noticed a lot of the fence had been chewed ! |
| Vera |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 1:47:09 PM
Originally posted by Nichole WallerMy friends TB mare (age 17) has had 2 bouts of mild colic this week. The first was on Thursday where she was very restless in the stable (kept spinning round while her owner was trying to groom her) when she got her out of the stable she was slightly tucked up and sweaty at the top corner of her belly. My friend rode her in walk for 30 min ( ) and she was fine after this.
Am I the only one to be HORRIFIED that she RODE THIS MARE while suspecting colic!!!!!
And the poor mare has this TWICE and she doesn't call the vet.
She shouldn't have a horse as she clearly has no clue about management. |
| karitaz |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 1:18:24 PM
I would certainly advise your friend to get the vet to check if this happens again. There are lots of 'common' things we think of as contributing to colic that we can see/do such as feed/water issues (I've never heard of it from a heat reaction though) but there are also lots of things going on that may be far less obvious. Taz had major colic last year due to a strangulated small intestine from a lipoma wrapped around it. Only due to rapid action by all the vets to get him operated on (twice in the end) do we still have him here today. We didn't having any mild colic warnings beforehand with that but I think I would get anything repeated checked out in case it might be something that will escalate. |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 12:03:12 PM
Colic is a tricky one. My mare has the odd mild case, after calling the vet the first time and getting a bill for £460, we always take the second option, walk her very quietly for a good 20 mins and see if it goes away, up to now it has...and we have not needed the vet.
But, there is a list of things you should be now checking out,
Teeth
Worms
Plants
Feed
Gready eats too much
too much lush grass
Too long left without food.
Gas
Eating tree's
Mare's cycle
Ask your vet to write you a list of route things that might cause belly ache.
Therer's the other serious thing to add to this list.
Like things that might be going on with a mares reproduction system
or more sinister things..but I still think this odd back tooth was all the trouble.. causing extra acid and mild gut problems.
My horse was found to have a very sharpe pointed tooth right at the back of the mouth, this was missed by the route vet tooth insp...
Once this tooth was sorted, the mare stopped grinding her teeth and looked so much happier. No more problmes..so far.
Know your horse. If its the serious type of colic where the horse needs surgery, it wont go away in the first 20 - 40 mins and you'll be having to get your self and the horse in the right frame of mind..
To travel or not to travel.....and Fingers crossed.
Just my thoughts.
Sue |
| Pasha |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 11:06:32 AM
Oh Lynda how tragic for you! We always treat colic as an emergency (in fact I treat most things as an emergency - would rather look a bit stupid and lose £50 on call-out than risk my boys at all)!
My mum lost her mare Rissky whom she'd owned since weaning, at 13yrs due to colic. She lived at home with us and grew up with us so it was really like losing a member of the family! Of course you blame yourself, the vet, but sadly I think sometimes it's just one of those things. |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 10:50:05 AM
I lost a yearling to colic some years ago.
we will never know why he colicked , he was out in his field when at about 4pm , I saw him rolling , then get up and keep going down again , I brought him in and phoned the vet, vet treated him and he calmed right down to normal, then vet said just leave him without hay until about 9 pm that night , if he is ok you can give him some.
I went out at 9pm only to find him in a terrible state , sweating and rolling around in agony , vet came straight back and we tried everything but by that time he was so far gone we couldn't get him to stand up let alone get him in the trailer to take him to the hospital some 2 hours away, so he was PTS there and then.
yes of course I blame myself , I had left him alone in the box from about 5pm to 9pm , had I gone up again to look at him I could have got him to the hospital in time, a lesson learnt that cost a life ! but I am never complacent now. colic can be a killer . |
| pinkvboots |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 10:15:11 AM
I have always called a vet for colic as I have seen horses go downhill quite quickly, the horse does sound a bit over rugged and could make her uncomfortable but I doubt it would bring on colic and as she has had two bouts in such a short time a vet is the only option I think. |
| gossy |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 09:34:02 AM
i had my old pony colic a couple of years ago, this was in the summer due to someone chucking grass cuttings in my field but scary none the less, she was actually on the floor in her stable and when the pain came she was in a frozen state, we got her up and walked her in hand, (dont know why you would ride horse during colic even in walk???)until vet came, injection administered and luckily she recovered, but over the years i have had experience with colic's due to change in routine, weather and over rugging all are equally dangerous and should be an emergency vet call i feel. |
| Veem |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 10:28:56 PM
The only time my horse ever had colic (apart from as a classic symptom of Piroplasmosis - a tick borne disease which most of you fortunately will be unaware of, but is prevalent here in France) was when he was over rugged by a yard manager (medium + heavy weight - quite ridiculous in an indoor American barn) on a night in the UK when the temp was due to drop to about 0 degrees C. Fortunately he was found colicking and sweating profusely by a DIY who'd arrived to see her pony in the evening. After a vet came and administered an anti spasmodic med, he recovered quickly.
Ever since I prefer to under rug. |
| garnet |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 4:33:50 PM
Agree with comments re vet. Having lost one horse during surgery for a twisted gut and another 3 days after surgery for pedunculated lipoma, I am only too aware that a colic is ALWAYS an emergency until you know otherwise - perhaps if you are really lucky the horse will be feeling better by the time the vet arrives, in which case you thank God instead of moaning about the callout.
Re over-rugging - one of my pet hates; it's a wonder some HOYS horses survive with 3 or more rugs on by the end of August! Quite possibly the mare could be thoroughly uncomfortable and stressed or even dehydrated due to sweating, either of which could contribute to colic. |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 09:33:38 AM
my foal had spasmodic colic the other day, vet said it was most likely due to weather change ! touch wood she is ok, very frightning in one so young.
I also think routine change upsets them. try to think like a horse to understand a horse.
if it happens again she should send for the vet! |
| Goldenmane |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 08:05:17 AM
Agree call in vet. Have to say she does sound too hot, and also the change of your own horses routine could upset her (but not your fault.) Sorry, but as for owner having a lay in so horse is wearing a heavyweight rug in 19 degrees...unacceptable. |
| Mrs Vlacq |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 8:25:07 PM
is she in season? this time of year they can be very niggly. |
| Honeyb060674 |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 7:56:34 PM
Please advise your friend to seek the advise of her vet.
Following what Pasha has just mentioned about dehydration, that was my initial thought, especially if she is heavily rugged & potentially too hot. A friend of mine lost her beloved gelding last year due to impaction, causing colic as a result of dehydration. He had 2 bouts over a few weeks, the second he didn't recover from.
It's always better to be safe than sorry with this awful condition. |
| Nichole Waller |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 7:46:10 PM
No Vet called, and she borrowed some Bute which was given to the mare in a feed. |
