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T O P I C R E V I E W
zooscat
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 09:18:55 AM When I had Ryazan (RIP) is caried a longish dressage whip to back up leg aids; I only ever needed to do this if he had got into "lost the plot/brain cell turned off/tantrum mode". It didn't happen often to the degree that he wouldn't go forward and was running backwards, and I only carried it if we were going to hack on the road. Otherwise, we would have the space to deal with it without needing a sharp tap with the whip to get him moving forward safely. With Aragon, I dont need this because we mainly ride off road, and although spooky, he is not dangerously so (yet!)and he is very onward bound and brave (apart from Killer Plastic Bags!) People on the yard have said I "should" always carry a whip, but that seems mainly so that they can hold it out to the side to prevent cars coming too close, to ward off dogs, and, generally "because I always have done". What do you do and why?
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
zooscat
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 5:04:52 PM All this is very good advice on dealing with dogs behaving like dogs and owners behaving in an ignorant/lazy/stupid manner! My point was that Aragon was OK to turn and face the Akita on the first incident, but the collie chasing him, herding him and diving in and nipping him would have made it wholly impracticable to use a whip or a wipwop as he was rearing so high I wouldn't have reached them, and I needed both hands to cling on! I have planned to ride in more distant places, where Joe and Jolene Bloggs and their feckless dogs and children dont hang out, to ride early whilst famille Bloggs are still in bed, and to eventually, get my dog walking ladies to do de-sensitising work with Ari with their exquisitely trained gun dogs!
cmj
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 12:45:46 PM Mine all get ridden western so I always have extra rein length to swing about as necessary but I use a wipwop (?) shortish bit of old lead rein minus clip and doubled up to give 2 short lengths with small loop for hand on one end, when starting youngsters. I can swing this round to encourage, slap bums with it to encourage thinking forward and the joy is that it doesn't sting at all like a whip, plus it is soft so doesn't hurt your hand/wrist if you did fall off.
Great idea about hi-viz tape, I might try to stick some on my wipwop.
pinkvboots
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 10:07:58 AM I have already commented on this subject but another thing I find that helps with uncontrollable dogs, if they are running around the horses barking and so forth, I tell the owner the horse kicks at everything and has seriously hurt dogs in the past they soon catch there dog and put it on a lead, mind you that is not entirely a lie my old mare who is no longer with us, she would really try and kick any dog that run round her legs and she really meant it bless her.
Callisto
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 10:00:06 PM With regard to dogs, and if you have read my previous post you will know that I have had serious problems with them, from the other point of view, my mother has a standard poodle puppy. He is still being trained and it would be fair to say he is very over exuberant. By no means do I mean to imply that he attacks horses, people or other dogs, he just thinks they are very interesting and he is very bouncy, large and white. Because of this she takes care to walk him in places where she is unlikely to meet people. However, a few weeks ago she met two riders on horseback out hacking with their small dog (they know us since they keep their horses next door to us and we are on friendly terms). Flurry was very pleased to see them and my mother couldn't catch him in time. Instead of waiting for her to get him on the lead they carried on, so Flurry followed them, and my Mother had to stagger after them (she is 68 with a bad hip) for over 20 minutes until he came back. So if a dog starts following you then it is a good idea to stop so that the owner can get it under control. Horses are flight animals and dogs are hunters - natural instinct is for dogs to chase things that run away. This is why I trained Buzz to turn and face dogs who were aggressive to him head on, and occasionally have ridden straight at them - it intimidates the dog rather than the other way round.
Obviously I am not suggesting that this is a solution for all situations/really aggressive dog attacks/ a situation where there is a pack of aggressive dogs. I would also add that the slight downside is that Buzz has grown to enjoy intimidating dogs, and quite likes chasing them and rearing over the top of them (hasn't hurt one yet). This tends to make the owners pretty keen to get the dog back and under control.
Zan
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 9:05:31 PM
Originally posted by Arachnid
I am not a dog owner so I dont know the answer to this, but why dont people routinely muzzle their dogs?
The answer to this is ---why don't people routinely train their dogs, or keep them on the lead if they know they can't control them around horses and other livestock? I would be very sad indeed if responsible dog owners had to muzzle their poor dogs in public because of the irresponsible owners. My dogs are all under control and it would break my heart to muzzle them--many dogs really hate muzzles, and they wouldn't be able to do all sorts of things like play with other dogs, pick up balls etc.etc. when muzzled.
zooscat
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 6:11:27 PM I dont necessarily want dogs muzzled - owners - yes, probably! I just want them on leads, under control, when riders are in the vicinity! I now have a medium dressage whip, with a bright yellow hi viz end to it, to wave at motorists and dog owners!
pinkvboots
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 10:06:11 AM How horrible for you, I too have been chased by dogs in the past I think all dogs should be muzzled in public places it would stop allot of unnecessary attacks on horses and people. I only carry a short whip Arabi is like a rocket if you carry anything longer than a crop, and yes I would use it to beat of any vicious dogs or there owners. also to add what a rude man hope you gave him a mouth full back.
Goldenmane
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 09:16:29 AM Horrible for you Zooscat, hope you had a calm ride. I once had to beat (and I hated doing it) a dog that was hanging onto my horses stomach as owner had run off. Without the stick I don't know what I would have done, but I never used it on my horse, it was for pushing and pulling gates and also (amazingly) thanking some drivers.
Arachnid
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 09:05:41 AM I am not a dog owner so I dont know the answer to this, but why dont people routinely muzzle their dogs?
MinHe
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 4:32:58 PM
Originally posted by TAE
Having also been attacked by dogs, carrying a whip it could be a bit too tempting to use it on the owner!!!!!!
My thought exactly!
Keren
TAE
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 10:03:50 AM Having also been attacked by dogs, carrying a whip it could be a bit too tempting to use it on the owner!!!!!!
Callisto
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 08:55:10 AM Horrible experience for you Zooscat - can you hack somewhere more 'dog free' for a bit? I know what it's like - my welsh x tb was chased out of his field (jumped over 5 bar gate onto road to get away) by fellow liveries dog. After that it was very difficult if a dog ran up to him - basically he would bolt, so obviously dog would give chase - etc. etc. I had a particularly bad experience galloping full speed down a track straight at a metal 5 bar gate - luckily I managed to turn him into an open gateway and circle him to a stop. I found the best thing to do was to turn him to face the dog in question and ride him at it - puts the dog off (a lot less likely to chase something large coming at them). Living at my cousins with their collie did a lot to cure Buzz of his fear. I agree, a whip would not help at all.
zooscat
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 07:39:51 AM Thanks very much for those illuminating replies; seems like a generalised "yes" for different reasons. Think I will get another dressage whip and bind it with a Hi Viz tape at the end. Re using it with dogs; I had another REALLY scary experience out in the next door "Community Park" where, allegedly "Everyone is welcome to enjoy this lovely place; please keep dogs under close control and on a lead if necessary. Horses welcome. Please do not canter or gallop". Last weekend, I was riding a frinds rather green but calm cob, and my instructor was riding the Wonder Horse, equally calm, but a bit spooky. Both well used to the yard dogs who run around in all shapes and sizes - no problem. An Akita dived out at us - off lead - and not responding to the owner at all ("Come here, Sweetiepie") The dog chased round us biting at the cob's legs. He reared, slid, came down. I was thrown clear but really hurt my back - bruising- and had a very bad bang on the head. Aragon spun and shot off, but calmed and came back immediaely when asked. Owner of Sweetiepie said "sorry - didnt see you!!! Got back on cob, rode off and had a bit of a nerve wracking ride as both horses a bit hyped up but calmed down eventually. This weekend, went outon Aragon; walked round same park. This time, man with collie and stick with a cup thing on its' end started throwing the ball from the cup over me and Ari; Ari a bit suprised but Ok. I walked away and started to trot slowly off up the hill to get away from this idiot. Collie chased after us, biting at A's legs He shot off, I managed to steady him down, but the collie went into sheepdog mode and started circling us, barking and crouching and diving in for a snap every now and again. Ari began to rear quite badly and spook and swerve and continued rearing and trying to bolt. I really thought I was coming off several times, but was absolutely determined not to, as my back still hurts and I thought Ari would run off with the dog chasing him and get really hurt. I clung on,wedged in behind the massive knee rolls of the Wow saddle, and eventually managed to stop. The dog owner had by then called his dog off. I spoke to him and told him he was very irresponsible and nearly caused a serious accident. He said "F*** off you stupid b****." And walked off, dog still off lead and chasing the ball. Ari continued to rear and plunge at every dog he saw after that until after about a mile of it, he calmed down and we walked alongside several dog owners with their dogs under control. I dont think a whip would have helped in this situation as it would have frightened A even more, and I couldn't have used it effectively because A was rearing and spinning. Off now to have another "quiet hack" feeling rather anxious!
Jess.And.Tiger
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 12:29:48 AM I always carry a whip, probs just the way I was taught... I remember when I hated carrying a whip and joan would make me carry one haha i used to always moan about carrying a cane in shows also haha!!!
I have a range though... I have schooling whips all the way down to tiny show jumping whips and always carry one what ever I'm doing
although I have to say I rarely use it and if I do it's to reinforce leg as he can be lazyyy
xxx
jasjmm
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 11:39:36 PM No, although I can see why people would carry one for hi vis or dogs.
Lucytoo
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 6:16:16 PM
Originally posted by Roseanne
I always carry a schooling whip - a long, bendy one! (I love the idea of some hi viz on the end of it!!). I would feel something was not right if I didn't carry a whip, though I hardly ever have to use it and only ever for aid back-up.
I always teach youngsters to be ridden with a whip from the first time aboard so they accept it just like they do the reins and/or legs. It would be awful for someone else to be caring for/riding the horse and unable to carry a whip.
Schooling a youngster to be sensitive to the leg, reinforced if necessary in the very early stages, requires a schooling whip but you probably never need to use it again once the training's established.
I also find it a useful tool to have alongside the horse's offside in case of shying or 'banana-ing' out into the road around something spooky, or between us and an electric fence.
Totally agree with all of the above
I always carry my schooling stick, rarely need to use it, as he has learn to go from my leg and if we hit a sticky bit, usually smacking my boot with the stick is all it takes to get him forward again
L.x
suyents
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 6:04:11 PM never ride with one myself these days, although if i did, i would agree with Lindylou...and i quite like the idea of hiviz material attached... Still, many years ago now i did bring the end of a schooling whip down heavily onto the roof of a car that was passing me so close to my stirrup that i could have touched the car with my boot.... funnily enough, we were riding in the school nover here last week and a visiting Canadian asked the Director of the stables, Do you ever use whips? and he replied, NO, we use legs....
Roseanne
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 5:49:45 PM I always carry a schooling whip - a long, bendy one! (I love the idea of some hi viz on the end of it!!). I would feel something was not right if I didn't carry a whip, though I hardly ever have to use it and only ever for aid back-up.
I always teach youngsters to be ridden with a whip from the first time aboard so they accept it just like they do the reins and/or legs. It would be awful for someone else to be caring for/riding the horse and unable to carry a whip.
Schooling a youngster to be sensitive to the leg, reinforced if necessary in the very early stages, requires a schooling whip but you probably never need to use it again once the training's established.
I also find it a useful tool to have alongside the horse's offside in case of shying or 'banana-ing' out into the road around something spooky, or between us and an electric fence.
MinHe
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 5:42:13 PM I'm one of those who carry a whip as an anti-car device! Though I do occasionally find it useful with stallions to give them a tap on the shoulder to remind them which brain they're supposed to be thinking with
Keren
Mrs Vlacq
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 2:18:16 PM I tend to carry a schooling whip, though it's a short /child length' one with a hooked top, perfect for doing gates etc! I find I usually carry it like a cane, holding below the handle, so it's rarely used but to hand if I need to. As it's not a full length one it's no hassle to carry it and not use it. When I lunge I take my lungewhip out with me and spend the whole sesion with it tucked under my arm and trailing behind me, but it's there if I need it. Habit I suppose!
Red Rum
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 1:35:26 PM Hi I always carry a whip handy if you get dogs chasing you wich has happened to me on several occasions and also if cars get to close you can it can help Mandy
alypie
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 12:38:30 PM im pretty much the same as most everyone else on here, i carry one if i think my horse is going ti need it, or if im out hacking to keep cars at a better distance, otherwise i find it gets in the way and is sometimes more of a distraction than an aid
geegee
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 12:29:49 PM
Originally posted by garnet
I had a friend who used to wave hers at motorists who caused her aggro and say 'Next time you see this it'll be on your ****ing X ray!'
I'll try and remember that one when all else fails!
garnet
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 12:22:32 PM I always carried a whip out hacking - useful to poke gates or hold down shoulder while car passed. I had a friend who used to wave hers at motorists who caused her aggro and say 'Next time you see this it'll be on your ****ing X ray!' Always carried a schooling whip when having a lesson or doing 'serious' schooling but rarely needed to use it. Once drove home approx. 70 miles from Haydock with one on the roof of the car - is this a record?
Callisto
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 11:43:02 AM I don't like carrying a whip, particularly in my left hand as it feels clumsy, however I carry one when I have lessons because the Instructor expects me to so that I can back up leg aids if necessary. I also carry one when I ride Buzz so that I can give him a tap when he decides bucking would be fun, but if I forget it I just tell him off verbally and keep his head up and push him on with my legs, has the same effect.
We have 3 elderly hunting crops, I'm sure Mum used to use one on Harley for endurance - think I'll look mine out for this season, since Lily's height combined with my increasing decrepitude means gates are a bit of a stretch ( Obviously I wouldn't use a hunting crop on a horse)
I like the sound of your invention Sandy - perhaps you should patent it quick!
The dog chased round us biting at the cob's legs. He reared, slid, came down. I was thrown clear but really hurt my back - bruising- and had a very bad bang on the head. Aragon spun and shot off, but calmed and came back immediaely when asked. Owner of Sweetiepie said "sorry - didnt see you!!!
