| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| suejs001 |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 1:11:13 PM
Sam has laminitis again and in Leahrust on thursday for more x rays ... after fighting this for a year I cannot believe he has it again. I have been so careful but when we got the cold snap I couldn't work him or soak his hay and hey presto laminitis is back again. His pedal bone sunk 4mm and rotated 5 degrees last time I don't know how bad that is for a 75% part bred arab but my farrier said that arabs didn't do laminitis as well as other breeds / types. Does anyone know. I am so scared that this is it... he is only rising 8.
thanks
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| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| LOU |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 5:14:18 PM
I am not sure if this will help but my daughters section A seems to suffer every winter as soon as it gets dark early, he has had it again this winter for 7 weeks, he does not have grass and was worked, I decided to put them on NAF Pink powder and it has simply gone vanished he is sound off the Bute and Sedalin, after 2 weeks of using the pink powder, im not sure if the hind gut was upset due to the change in routine less turn out, as he goes out all day in the summer with the others on good grass and never gets lami in the summer it is all very strange, it may help the Pink Powder.
Lou |
| loosefur |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 2:09:34 PM
Originally posted by basbob
Technically.... not all horses that experience laminitis will founder but all horses that founder will first experience laminitis.
Founder, I believe, is the result of sinking and rotation. They are not the same!
A friend used a product Founderguard for her prone ponies and she said it did the trick.
It's all just terminology. The veterinary definition of laminitis for research projects in this country is that some rotation or sinking has to have occured. So laminitis without rotation isn't considered laminitis by research vets. Madness!
The confusion with Jaime's book is between US terminology and UK terminology. If you read the book he is talking about any stage of laminitis - whether rotation has occured or not. The treatment is just the same whatever stage the damage is at. After all the word laminitis just means inflammation of the laminae, which in itself is incorrect as any attack will result in inflammation of the entire supercorium, not just the laminae.
In any event the advice contained in Jaime's book is priceless and has saved many horses that would otherwise have been PTS. |
| Kazzy |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 1:55:19 PM
You are right Basbob its not the same, horses/ponies can get Laminitis and not founder ie Sink/rotate but horses that have foundered have had Lamintis. It was the Founder that ended my Mares life not the Lamintis!!
And also Pure Bred Arabians have dense bone unlike other breeds that have course bone so Pure Bred's feet are different to other horses feet.
Janet |
| basbob |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 1:37:59 PM
Technically.... not all horses that experience laminitis will founder but all horses that founder will first experience laminitis.
Founder, I believe, is the result of sinking and rotation. They are not the same!
A friend used a product Founderguard for her prone ponies and she said it did the trick.
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| Kazzy |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 08:41:08 AM
I'm sure Robert Eustace will be thrilled by your expertise in this matter
Janet |
| Jumanji |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 9:51:09 PM
Founder -Prevention and cure the natural way ,Jamie Jackson -FANTASTIC BOOK -saved life of friends horse here -i have read every inch of that book -truly AMAZING!!!!! |
| loosefur |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 9:08:29 PM
Originally posted by basbob
Do beware of the "books" - not knocking them..... - but need to read in context!
A lot of what they say is good but there's a difference between laminitis and founder........
Founder is simply the American term for laminitis! |
| basbob |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 8:41:04 PM
Do beware of the "books" - not knocking them..... - but need to read in context!
A lot of what they say is good but there's a difference between laminitis and founder........ |
| loosefur |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 6:20:07 PM
Originally posted by RAFA
Can I ask Loosefur, who told you that pedal bone rotation and sinking was not a problem and not to worry about it?????
Janet
Founder: Prevention and Cure the Natural Way by Jaime Jackson... available on Amazon.
Also read the article titled Mythos of P3 Rotation by Jaime Jackson on the AANHCP website under News and Articles.
Enlightening stuff.
Re Robert Eustace - wouldn't let him within 500 miles of any of my horses... |
| jaj |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 4:29:15 PM
I believe that Dr Eustace at the Laminitis Trust said much the same about Arab feet and that Arab's just don't 'deal' with it as well as some other breeds.
Saying that my best friend's Arab fought laminitis for 3 years and never a more stalwart horse could you hope to meet. Sadly she lost her battle eventually but the rotation was appalling and she was mm away from the pedal bone coming through the sole.
8 is young, hopefully Sam will continue to fight the good fight.
Thinking of you, it is a dreadful condition to be dealing with, both horse and owner  . |
| basbob |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 4:22:02 PM
Every farrier I've ever had has rated arab feet as stronger than most. Curious as to what he means by arabs don't do laminitis as well as other breeds?
Poor you and poor Sam - I've always believed that rotation of the pedal bone is not good and has to be addressed, but it can be treated.
Hope he gets over this. X |
| Kazzy |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 1:54:24 PM
Can I ask Loosefur, who told you that pedal bone rotation and sinking was not a problem and not to worry about it?????
Janet |
| loosefur |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 1:18:25 PM
What an odd thing for a farrier to say... arab feet are no different to any other breed. The only thing that distinguishes between quality of feet is the horse's metabolism. Horses that metabolise sugar and starches quickly and efficiently are less likely to get laminitis than those that metabolise slower. Don't worry too much about rotation or sinking - the pedal bone is on a joint and designed to move! It wouldn't be jointed other wise. What is really happening is that the hoof capsule is growing away from the pedal bone due to inflammation of the laminae. It's nature trying to protect itself.
Firstly I would urge you to buy the book Founder: Prevention and Cure the Natural Way by Jaime Jackson. His methods work wonders. Once you find what is triggering the inflammation of the laminae and remove it, the inflammation will go and so will the pain. The feet might look damaged but that doesn't mean the horse won't be sound and in work. I have clients who have horses with rotation from lami attacks years ago who are working as hard as any horse. There have been many lami cases about recently - combination of the cold weather, people not being able to soak hay, frosty grass, lack of exercise etc. One of my client's IR mares came down with it really badly around Christmas - she is ultra sensitive. The vet wanted her to put shoes back on (we'd removed the shoes back in the spring as the mare had been chronically lame for two years in heartbar shoes) - vet in fact said the mare would never come sound unless she had heartbar shoes on. Client stayed strong - heart bar shoes had never worked before - and refused. She started soaking the mare's hay again, cut out everything else (had been feeding HiFi Lite because worried about dropping weight in the cold weather), and hey presto the mare was 100% sound again within five days. Vet came back out and professed herself 'surprised' that heart bar shoes were clearly not needed, though didn't go as far as admitting she had been wrong. The other things I always recommend are to put them on a course of Happy Tummy by Fine Fettle Feeds, which removes all the toxins from the horse's system and to give a magnesium oxide supplement... you can buy mag ox on ebay very cheaply.
But please be reassured rotation is not the end of the road by any means. As long as you get the inflammation under control the horse will come sound again. |
| suzanna |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 1:08:16 PM
If there`s more and more cases of laminitis, we have to ask ourselves why? What has changed, diet, pestisides. I was chatting to a client the other day, and she told me a story about somebody that lived next to a sugar beet farm, the beet was sprayed a minimum of 6 times with chemical pestisides, and she noticed her horses were getting illnesses which they never had before.
We are lucky that we feed our horses organic haylage and organic oats. I do worry about the foods on the market and how many nasty chemicals they actually contain, and what they are doing to our horses health |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 12:37:00 PM
sadly I have just had Shaheena diagnosed with Laminitis ! she is in now much to her annoyance , with a deep bed , glue on bar shoes, and soaked hay , all a little too late now, but I must get her right.
the others keep calling to her which makes her call back and I dont want her stressed so midgit is next to her on companion duty, ( where would we be without companions) my vet says he is seeing so many cases of lami just now! |
| suzanna |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 11:58:10 AM
Is Sam a stabled horse? Does he have shoes on? I`m just asking as I have 5 Arabs and they have never had laminitis, they are barefoot, live in a herd, and so have plenty of movement. |
| Kazzy |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 2:04:12 PM
Arabs feet are different to many other breeds and i think your farrier meant it that way, not in a way that they cant cope with Lamintis, my mare had lamintis for 11 years and coped very well and her feet were appalling in conformation, and my farrier used to have nightmares with her at first then he sorted her out by making her shoes and not buying buying them in.
He is in the right hands at Leahurst, my farrier knows the farrier there and he says he's one of the best in the country.
Good luck and keep your chin up, laminitis is awful for the horse and for us aswell, I awlays said it was a full time job dealing with my mare and being me I wouldnt leave her with just anyone when I went away, well infact the only time I went away was at Malvern when I knew that most of the spring grass had gone and the autumn laminitis wasnt upon us yet.
Janet |
| Pasha |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 1:54:27 PM
Poor Sam! I think that was a bit tactless of your Farrier and a bit of a sweeping statement to be fair! No one can know how he will cope with this current bout, but I really hope you caught it early and he makes a full recovery!
I can tell you that Pasha's worst foot rotated 9 degrees and Shesky's worse foot 14 degrees!!! But what's a number? Pasha was in the box for months and very lame, whereas Shesky was sound in 2 days and bucking around his box - didn't need special shoes and had to be set free after 5 weeks for everyone's sanity! I also know of a pony whos pedal bone dropped through his sole and he went on to fully recover and carry on jumping! You just cannot say either way i'm afraid!
Please stay hopeful though and I will cyber send Sam loads of hugs and well wishes xxx |
