| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| pathannay |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 12:21:46 PM
Never again will I bother to enter the BNFOY show!! The schedule for the show stated that Arab classes, starting with the Anglos and then following on with the pure breds, were due to start at approximately 4.30. The revised timetable, which was on view at the show, had brought those times back by one hour making the pure bred classes due to start at 4.15 – in fact they started at about 3.25, almost an hour and a half before the original time. Consequently, after travelling for four hours, we arrived too late for Avatar’s class. Why did the organisers not post a topic on here with the revised timetable so that competitors could adjust their plans accordingly – had we arrived an hour early we would have been there in plenty of time for his class?
More annoying was the fact that I had sent a PM to the organiser only last Friday asking about the starting times and received this reply:-
“The Arab classes are scheduled to start at approx 4.30pm We cannot guarantee classes will not start before the scheduled time as classes carry on all day without a break
May I suggest you arrive at least an hour or more, before the starting time of the class
As the Arab is the last section in ring one and if it looks likely the classes are finishing much earlier than the scheduled time, we may take a break in that ring.”
She would have known by Friday that the revised timetable would bring the classes back by an hour to start at 3.30 but still quoted the time as 4.30. No break was taken for Ring 1 to catch up and, indeed, it remained empty while the classes in ring 2 caught up before the Championships could take place.
More annoying was the attitude of the organisers and their lack of sympathy or understanding – they just couldn’t have cared less. Avatar spent a total of 10 hours in that trailer and my travelling costs were in the region of £120 – appalling waste of time, money and effort! Luckily, Avatar was totally unphased by it all and travelled like a pro – bless him!!!
Rant over!!!!
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| gem@oakmeister |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 2:43:20 PM
no I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I agree it's time to leave the subject now, which I intend to do after assuring you and anyone else I have no axe to grind. I don't know pat hannay, I don't know you, and I was not exhibiting but I was at the show and I know what I saw and heard. I have said before I think it's a fabulous show, and you, like all show organisers, deserve a damn medal for all your hard work. however what hapened on Sunday was in many peoples opinion a mistake. It is not a criticism, mistakes happen, just sad that it can't be acknowledged by all that fault did not lie with any one person and every one's point could be taken on board. You and your team did as alway's a brilliant job, but pat has a valid point. I just wish the subject could have been discussed without such anger and blame. |
| BabsR |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 1:04:11 PM
I again state....NO ONE phoned me on the day of the Show...am I now also being accused of not being truthful. Only my mobile number appeared on the schedule....and my phone did not ring all day!!
gem@aoakmeister are saying that I am a liar??
I believe you are exaggerating the facts, as I have not received any complaints, other than those two, mentioned earlier on this thread. On the contrary, I have received several supportive PM`s and also
quite a good number of letters and phone calls thanking me for such a wonderful show.
Please, now, let this matter rest!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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| gem@oakmeister |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 12:13:55 PM
I know it was all very unfortunate and probably best left now as i doubt it will ever be resolved to every ones satisfaction, however, whilst i don,t know pat personaly, i do know what she looks like and the person i refer to was not her.
Please realise that hundreds of people love the show, and appreciate all the effort that goes into it, it's just that some people felt they were treated in a very off hand manner over their understandable disappointment, and the 'tough, take it or leave it' attitude was probably the reason disappointment turned to anger. they, as well as show organisers put in much time effort and money, and some understanding of this might have avoided such bad feeling. |
| BabsR |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 11:22:46 AM
gem@aokmeister......I can assure you, NO ONE rang on the day of the show...my phone was in my pocket and did not ring all day. I think the person you are speaking about is Pat Hannay who PM`d me of Friday evening, certainly NOT on the Showday and she was the one showing me the message on her phone, whom you were possibly referring to.
Pat is the only complainant I have had, regarding missing her class. The only other complaint is regarding clipping of foals for which I am waiting to see the show photographs before I can take further action to resolve the matter, for the complainant.
We do our best.....we are not perfect!!
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
| gem@oakmeister |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 10:43:05 AM
I feel I must repeat what I heard whilst waiting to speak to someone at the desk. the lady in front of me was very very angry. it seems she had contacted an official on Sunday morning during the show to enquire how things were running and had received a text back saying all well, everything as schedule. she then produced her phone to show the text. she was FURIOUS. She received no sensible explanation and walked away with her hands in the air. As I said previously I heard many other unhappy people.
I know it must be a thankless task, but the handling of a difficult and unexpected situation should have been better. And after the event, maybe admit that, rather than wash ones hands of it and blame everyone else for not being clarvoyant. |
| BabsR |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 10:20:23 AM
For heavens sake Pat....please stop gnawing at the same bone 
Your PM clearly asks what time the Arab classes were scheduled to start. As I have your entry and know you have Pure Arab, I gave you the timing for your Arab Classes. Had you asked for starting time of Anglo/PBA section, I would have given you that information
It is not possible or practical to schedule classes on a not before basis timetable, and I feel by giving as near as possible time, Exhibitors have a rough idea, and can plan their travelling time accordingly to ensure arrival in good time, and Show organisers are not then blamed for classes missed.
Enough said, I have twice stated I am sorry you missed your class, now, please let matters rest!!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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| pathannay |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 09:22:21 AM
Babs, re-read your PM to me!! in it you say "the Arab classes are scheduled to start at approximately 4.30" - you did NOT say that my purebred classes started at 4.30!! Why would I think that "Arab classes", in the plural, would mean mine?.
Enough said on this topic as you obviously do not think that you are at fault at all - I bothered to enquire last minute about timings to make sure Avatar had as short as possible wait for his class - and it backfired on me!!! But, please take on board my (and others) suggestions about having timed sections for next years show. |
| BabsR |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 11:41:12 PM
Pat... I did not intend to make further comment as this thread has run its course!! However...our Show schedule stated Anglo Arabs were scheduled for 4.30pm with Pure Arab to follow. Perhaps you misunderstood me when you enquired. I advised that your classes (Pure Arab section) was re-scheduled to approximately 4.30pm which surely does mean I advised you as correctly as I could anticipate (well 4.15 exactly which was stated on the final schedule) so why harp on over 15 minutes
In the event, due to entries not forward on the day and as classes ran on without a break.....Pure Arab classes where judged at 3.30pm Had you allowed an extra half hour earlier arrival time. you would not have missed your class. Other Arab exhibits were present and did not miss the earlier running of Pure Arab classes. Again, very sorry you missed your class. which quite simply, is not my fault
Thats life!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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| pathannay |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 10:57:54 PM
"Pat........How many Shows do you know that can and do, inform ALL exhibitors of the revised timetable when entries are taken up to the day before the Show?? I reiterate....It is the exhibitor`s responsibility to ENQUIRE as to the most likely time their class will be Judged and also the Exhibitors responsibility to arrive at the Show in good time for their class."
Babs,
That is why I am so annoyed - I DID ENQUIRE on Friday about any changes in starting times and YOU DID NOT tell me that the classes had gone back an hour, you said that the approximate time was still 4.30!! We arrived in plenty of time for our class if you hadn't put them back by one hour so why am I accused of being at fault?
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| BabsR |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 10:03:09 PM
Pat........How many Shows do you know that can and do, inform ALL exhibitors of the revised timetable when entries are taken up to the day before the Show?? I reiterate....It is the exhibitor`s responsibility to ENQUIRE as to the most likely time their class will be Judged and also the Exhibitors responsibility to arrive at the Show in good time for their class.
It is almost an impossible task to accurately assess how long a particular Judge will take to Judge a class or indeed how many Exhibits will turn up on the day. (and we have 19 Judges whom we do not expect to be kept waiting for late exhibitors))
We have done our best to ensure smooth running of the Show....it is up to you to ensure you arrive with good time to spare in the event of classes being staged earlier than the estimated times
Letters with Judges` Badges and revised timetable WERE sent to ALL our Judges a week before the Showday. However, due to an increase in charges (the extra weight of the badge)our first class stamp was apparently insufficient by 10p Therefore the Post Office witheld delivery to the Judges, and advised them, a charge of £1.10 had to be paid for handling charge, before they would deliver. Therefore some Judges received their Badges and information, others did not, depending on their local Post Office.
We also had to pay several £1.10p handling charges to the Postman from Exhibitors who had enclosed coinage with their entry forms, due to insufficient stamp charge, but did so, to ensure Exhibitors` entries were received and catalogued
If our services do not meet with your criteria....your choice not to come along in future!! It seems over 200 Exhibitors managed to present themselves in the rings on time without all the grumbling, many of whom travelled considerably more miles than yourself.
I will make no further postings on this topic
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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| pathannay |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 9:19:55 PM
Babs
You still haven't answered my two questions!
Pat |
| BabsR |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 7:06:00 PM
We had a good entry again this year, even though we expected a low entry due to the present economic climate.
Only Pat and one other Exhibitor missed their class!as far as we are aware
I was taking entries up until Friday 19th to enable exhibitors the opportunity to enter at the last minute
Saturday, all day, 20th is spent personally cooking and preparing the buffet for Our Judges and Officials whilst my OH and friends set up at the Showground. There is only so much a single pair of hands can do!!
Much easier, if exhibitors phoned... but again, the updated time is only `approximate` and cannot account for none attendance of exhibits on the day
In the interest of all concerned our decision was based on the good of the majority and classes cannot be held up for a late exhibitor.
We do state a mobile number for the Showday and exhibitors can phone for an on the day "running of the classes timing" as they happen
Our Show is well organised and there has not been a problem or complaint about missing classes from the info we provide, at previous Shows
Owner/Exhibitors must take responsibility for arriving in good time for their classes (and I did make a point of saying allow at least an hour or more)
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
| SueB |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 6:36:03 PM
Had we, as you suggested, called for an hours break, we would have faced the anger of exhibitors who had arrived in good time and had their foals all prepared standing in the collecting ring,
What about using a PA system to let competitors know there will be a break at so and so time thus allowing exhibitors the chance to return to stables or lorries to wait? or fitting a break in to the revised timetable? I have been at many shows where the oragnisers have asked me to hang on for exhibitors who they know have entered and not yet turned up at the ring side? Just a case of trying to please as many as poss I know, but often you do it just to try and keep everyone happy and keep people coming back next year.
I know it's not easy running a show and fitting it all in, plus keeping everyone happy, but maybe you could consider this next time? |
| pathannay |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 6:01:07 PM
Babs, I take all your points and know that running a show is probably one of the most difficult, and thankless, tasks there is. Also, I have attended the show as a spectator for many years and thoroughly enjoyed it. But, we actually did arrive one hour before our class was due to start if, as the schedule said, the Anglos started at 4.30, their championship followed and then the pure breds started - that would have made our class due about 5.00! What was so annoying was that nobody bothered to let the exhibitors know that the timetable was revised and on that revised timetable the Anglos were due in at 3.30 and the purebreds at 4.15. Had a post been put on here, even as late as Saturday night, we would have left an hour earlier and been there in plenty of time - even given that the purebreds did not start at the due time of 4.15 but around 3.30!!!!
Do you agree that after entries are received a revised schedule should be available to all exhibitors which would reflect a more accurate timing of classes based on the number of entries?
Can you please explain why you didn't think it necessary to let people know of the revised timetable before they arrived at the show?
Pat |
| BabsR |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 5:04:21 PM
gem@oakmeister
Organisers have to make decisions based on all....... competitors, Judges, Stewards, Spectators. Had we, as you suggested, called for an hours break, we would have faced the anger of exhibitors who had arrived in good time and had their foals all prepared standing in the collecting ring, secondly do we also ask Judges to wait a further hour, when they were there ready to Judge the classes and finally, we have to consider our hard worked ring stewards who had been standing all day that they had to wait another hour before their duty was finished.
In the eighth running of the show, Ring two has always been later finishing and yes, we could have moved the last section from ring two into ring one but may then have caused exhibitors in that section to miss their classes!!! Damned if you do Damned if you dont.
Yes, there will always be a few grumbles but far far outweighed by those exhibitors who have been delighted to exhibit year in year out, win or not as they so enjoy the friendly atmosphere of a well run show. always be a few hic-coughs I`m afraid, thats Showing for you |
| alison |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 4:46:37 PM
Wow not sure what to say except that my very good friend showed and everything was great... sometimes I guess things can go awry but all reports to me a great show.
Alison
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| gem@oakmeister |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 4:39:29 PM
Have to say i was astonished at the time changes. We arrived at 4.15 as spectators this year (thank god we weren't showing as things turned out) Just in time to see pure bred champs. Now i know schedule said approx 4.30 but there is starting early and then there is STARTING EARLY. I have no idea what time AA & PB must have started if pure bred champs were finished by 4.15 ish. Having spoken to someone at sec's desk i was told that classes ran on without a break, and thats pretty much that. Which brings me to the part that completely baffles me. Ring one then stood empty for over an hour while ring two caught up ready for the final championship classes. Who the heck thought that was a good decsision. A break in ring one would have solved the entire problem, bringing classes closer to advertised time and the two rings ready for champs pretty much together.
However, i have to say that having attended every year since the start, shown foals there twice, i think it is a fabulous show and am very sad that this year the organisers seem to have made a monumental mistake. Apart from Pat's disappointment and understandable anger voiced here on AL, i overheard many many people at the show who were furious. I do hope this does not seriously affect next years entries because, i say again, this is a fabulous show. Lets hope lessons have been learned, because if not then people will not travel their precious babies to a show they can't trust, and then we will all miss the joy of seeing these stars of the future. |
| BabsR |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 4:26:22 PM
Have just come on line (having spent all day yesterday unpacking
and storing away all the show equipment after a hectic few days)
Am I surprised to a complaint...probably not. A show Organiser/Secretary however hard they try, will never ever be able to please all of the people all of the time
My Husband and I did the Show circuit for many years, home produced and shown and can honestly say, we only ever missed two classes in thirty years.....and did not blame the Show organisers.
I have tried to schedule classes on the basis of which exhibits where most likely to be involved in the Supremes at the end of a long day which I thought may have been acceptable to the Arab Exhibitors. Would Arab Exhibitors be happy if I do as a poster here suggested and schedule the Arab classes at the 8.30am start to guarantee their class would start exactly at the scheduled time??? taking into consideration they would have a long wait for the supremes which usually take place around 5.00pm
"She would have known by Friday that the revised timetable would bring the classes back by an hour to start at 3.30 but still quoted the time as 4.30"......posted by Pat Hannay
At the time of speaking to Pat the revised schedule was timed upon entries received at the closing date.......I cannot forsee into the future and cannot summise exactly how many exhibits will not attend on the day....hence my reason for advising to arrive at least an hour or more before the "approximate only" time stated, as 4.30pm
.
I most certainly do not agree that I was uncaring and inconsiderate. It is not my responsibility to ensure you personally, arrive in good time...allowing that particularly in foal classes and regardless of an updated time schedule based on entries received, at least 25% do not turn up on the day. Hence my reason why I suggested to all enquiring exhibitors, to arrive as early as is possible, at least an hour or more.
As far as I am aware,there were only two exhibitors from 57 classes, who missed their class. with exhibitors travelling from as far as Scotland. The second folk actually being on the Showground and in the collecting ring, but still missed their class!! They did not complain about missing their class but insisted they should be allowed to go into the Championships as they would have been second,
with only two entries forward.
The show schedule clearly states (even the revised one after entries have closed) clearly says stated time are approximate only and classes would follow on without a break
It was interesting to note also that spectators wishing to attend to
watch specific sections, arrived in good time to see their chosen classes
We are very sorry you missed your class after travelling such a long way but we cannot be blamed for that. Your decision not to exhibit at our Show again is your choice of course.
We have again received many Phone calls and letters from happy exhibitors thanking us for a wonderful day for a well organised friendly show, including a personal call from Horse and Hound reporter
congratulating us and making particular comment about our strict adherence regarding our Rules and regulations.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
P.S. No one was panicking!! We were concerned but Mrs Grant-Chivers arrived in good time to Judge the Arab classes which started an hour earlier than scheduled |
| weirton |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 10:52:11 AM
We went for the Hacks, Riding Ponies, AA/Pbs and pure-breds, so have no-one to particularly stick to. Don't forget we had Pure-breds as long ago as 1973 so are not single minded.
Agree it's a National Show but if distances are great and weather cold IMO foals shouldn't be subjected to extended journey times and should stay over.
Having made your point, a valid one to some degree, it is pointless and vindictive to keep harping on especially as in your first post you ended by saying 'Rant Over'
Jean |
| pathannay |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 10:37:39 AM
Jean, it seems more like 'the AA/Pb people sticking together to me!
I thought the idea of a BRITISH NATIONAL Foal Show was that foals from all over come rather than just the local ones? |
| weirton |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 10:03:12 AM
I thought it was the AA/Pb people who did all the moaning!
We worked out what time to be there taking into account there were likely to be fewer entries and time was only approximate and didn't miss a thing that we wanted to see.
Personally I wouldn't and didn't travel foals from Devon to Solihull for a foal show in a cold November but each to their own I suppose. Whose benefit was it for surely not the foals?
Yes there were faults but show me a show that pleases everyone. Perhaps the complainers should put in as much as they take out and show us exactly how it shoud be done. As Pat Day says I'm sure these points will be addressed by the organisers and thank her for trying to provide the shows for the owners/trainers to go to.
I also don't think opinions from people who were't there are either valid or helpful. JMO.
Jean |
| pathannay |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 09:35:46 AM
Elaine, you read my thoughts!!! I expect that they/she are confident that they are in the right because they only said that the times were 'approximate' - this was the unswerving attitude we were faced with on Sunday. But, if they want to keep exhibitors and entries (and so keep the show going), they need to be abit more understanding! Arriving at a show with a foal at least an hour before the 'approximate' class time and then perhaps having to have him/her stand for another couple of hours because the class is running late is not on in November when the weather is so cold. A timetable should only be produced after the entries are closed so that it an be worked out on entries received - the start times should be 'not before' times and if the classes finish early then the ring should wait until the next alloted time to start. This would keep the show going on but with only short delays for some classes and everyone would know exactly what time to arrive. In past years I have known arab foals arrive at around 3.30 and the classes not start at 4.30 but nearer 6.00 - just not on with the little ones.
Pat x |
| pat day |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 09:26:19 AM
Hi Guys,
friendly opinions are good
Seriously though, surely injured parties will have written to the organiser, so hopefully it can be sorted for next time. |
| Sahir |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 07:45:51 AM
Surprised that the organiser (or one of them) who so constantly is posting on A-L hasn't commented !!!!!! She usually has an opinion on everything. |
| pathannay |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 5:34:55 PM
Theo, that is awful about your friend - how could they ignore his generosity with the sponsorship :( - words fail me!!!
Nat, glad you didn't actually come to watch as you would have missed the classes, as did some other friends of mine :(
Lessons learnt me thinks!!!! |
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