| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Berryscroft |
Posted - 23 Jul 2010 : 5:49:23 PM
This is a plea to all of you out there to draw on your immense knowledge to see whether you can help with any advice or experience of these symptoms.
My friend has a home-bred TB yearling who is showing some odd signs of being unwell which, in 40 years of keeping horses, neither of us has come across before.
About three weeks ago (these are approximate times) this filly started going off her food (she was never a 'good' eater though) and would not be interested in her breakfast or evening feed. Some days she would eat up and others she would not eat anything. She is turned out every day (at night when it is hot during the day) with another mare for company, although she does not seem bothered whether she is on her own or in company. The grazing is not lush but is good and they poo pick every day. The filly is wormed regularly.
When turned out or when in the stable this filly is laying down for 20 hours out of the 24 (my friend knows this as she is out there checking her at odd times of the day and night!). Whilst laying down she sometimes lifts her muzzle and looks like she is stargazing, then drops her head again. When in the field she will randomly start walking backwards until she is in a corner and then lay down. She does occasionally turn to look at her belly but shows no signs of colic.
She did get kicked on the hock a couple of weeks ago and the vet was called and he put her on a 5 day course of antibiotics in case of infection. This wound had started healing up, but with all the laying down and getting up, it has opened up again. So, on Tuesday the vet came out again and gave this filly a good going over - internal exam, blood test, trotted her up to see her co-ordination, looked in her eyes and so on and so forth, (I wasn't there but this has been relayed to me over the phone). The blood test was sent to Newmarket and was tested for loads of different things and all that came from these tests was a slightly lowered red blood cell count. So the vet said she might have some kind of infection.
This morning when I spoke to my friend she was in tears looking at this little filly and says it seems like she is just watching her fade away and feels utterly helpless and useless, she has tried everything she can to entice this filly to eat. She has had a Vitamin B6 and B12 injection from the vet when he visited on Tuesday, which seemed to make no difference, she is giving her supplements and blood tonics (not all together!) and anything that she can think of to help her want to eat. This morning she took a feed out to her in the field and she didn't even get up from where she was lying and she started picking at the feed whilst still lying down, which is out of character for this filly.
The vet was coming out again today to start another course of antibiotics in case she has a virus of some kind but my friend is at her wits end and doesn't know what to do next.
Have any of you come across this sort of thing at all - any experience of similar symptoms ????? Anything you can share with us would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry this has been so long and thank you for reading to the end !
Terri |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| JulieBeattie1 |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 9:59:14 PM
What sad and awful news. My heart goes out to your friend who must be absolutely heartbroken.
I will certainly take note of what advice has come out of this discussion. |
| BabsR |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 6:10:50 PM
Roundworm, are, by their very description just that, whereas tapeworm are very different, being flat and segmented in appearance..... both easily distinguishable from each other.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianstud.co.uk |
| BabsR |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 6:09:58 PM
Roundworm, are, by their very description just that, whereas tapeworm are very different, being flat and segmented in appearance..... both easily distinguishable from each other.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianstud.co.uk |
| ella |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 5:52:13 PM
Reading through your post again - are you saying the 2 foals were given Moxidectin in July but still showed a huge roundworm burden when given Pyrantel 3 weeks later? Or was it tapeworm that were seen in the droppings?
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| Jamana |
Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 08:01:40 AM
Jessiemae, was your mare suffering from liver fluke? It is not unusual on horses that graze on wet or marshy pasture esp if cattle or Donkeys have been on the land in the previous 10 years and will cause the symptoms you describe.
There is no drug licsenced for horses that treats Liver Fluke so that would poss be the 'cattle wormer' your vet prescribed? It is called Fasinex and is a liquid rather than a past. A blood test will show the presence of Fluke.
How sad to her about this poor filly, but it is so helpful that the owners have been brave enough to allow Berryscroft to share their story. We have a rep from a large wormer company visiting the stud this week so I will pick his brains about this type of tape worm. |
| Pashon2001 |
Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 02:28:10 AM
This is very scary. I lost a foal I sold to someone many years ago who had been wormed regularly but had a tapeworm, which killed him.............so sad. I worm all my horses regularly now but only afterworm counts. I took in a mare a couple of months ago which had an extremely high worm count, but having wormed her nothing came out. It just goes to show, wormers arent that good! She is being retested now. hopefully the vets wormer did the trick.
So sorry to hear of the loss of the yearling. Nothing I say will compensate. |
| zapphire1 |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 10:48:12 PM
ive not had a internet connect for a while,and iam so sorry to read your post about her,poor little girl god bless her,
rozy rider is 100% right regards to blood test are the only way to find
tape worm,on another note
i remember a few years ago my friend had a jumping pony with unknow history he worm him with everything the pony looked well ie weight coat etc won and won everything one morning he went to his stable and found him saddly dead,postm should worms in blood stream he couldnt believe it as he owned him for over a year it broke his heart,
about 10 yrs ago my daughter was working for a stud,and she fell in love with a sec D she brought him and the breeder offered her a sec c for £50 iswell , i wasnt best please when they arrived the sec d was fine and age 10 yrs is still fine ,but it turned out she offered the sec c for £50 pounds as her vet said that he was really sick ,i hit the roof when i saw him not only because the sec c was only 4.1/2mths old,that was bad enough but the sec c was skin and bone with the bigest pot belly you would ever have seen, well i wormed the life out of him and he didnt have droppings he had bean shoots thats what it looked like ,i was luckie that he was so young in the end as it save his life, and when the breeder saw him the cheeky cow ,demaned we`d have him gelded as he was better the his full brother,and she lied and said he wasnt registered i phoned the wpcs and they sent me his papers and gave her a warning for with holding pappers!!!
but anyway i know how hard it is to lose such young horse and like someone else said it will be a life saver to others ,and i like to give you a big thank you for such good information although its quite shocking ,
i do have one question why can`t you post the wormers ?????????????????????on this forum as we have all said what we use on the forum (worming horses)if not expect lots of PM and count me in on that too,
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| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 07 Aug 2010 : 12:21:12 AM
So very sorry to hear of this sad loss.
Please remember folks that the Worm Counts will not show up the presence of Tape Worms, you need a Blood Test to check for Tapes. Your vet will arrange this. Also, remember to worm for Tapes,
and once you've got Tapes on the field, they are not going to go away.
I had a similar problem a few yaers ago with a young horse, the vet advised to worm for tapes that day and also took some blood to check for these. The next morning I found evidence of tapes in the droppings and by the time the second blood result came back, which took about 10 days, it was clear and the horse was better. My test went to Liverpool and they followed it up with all the relavent advice.
Sue |
| JESSIEMAE |
Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 8:53:45 PM
Terri, I am so sorry to hear this news. I too, have had a nightmare with a worm burden. I bought a rescue mare in October last year, many people here will know her as there were lots of postings on here about her.
Shulay Montana, my little lady, came to me in October, extremely thin and poor. I am so fortunate that my vet took one look at her and 'lets get the bloodwork done first as it will tell me the most'. The tests picked up a parasite burden that hadn't been cleared in spite of me worming her with 'a five day well known wormer' as soon as she arrived.
It's a few months ago now and I can't exactly remember what 'worm' it was but he prescribed a 'cattle wormer' and measured this out for me. I couldn't believe the difference this made to my mare in less than three weeks. Her coat went from 'dull and staring' to a lovely shine, she gained weight and almost immediately stopped her from standing, listlessly staring into space with no appetite what so ever in spite of resembling a toast rack.
She has now made a full recovery to a beautiful,fit,contented little mare.
I can't emphasize enough how dangerous it is too 'just read the info on the packet'
I trust my vet implicitly and he has treated out horses for the last 30 years... Gosh this shows my age and his..!
Thank you so much for posting this as I feel sure it will help other people.
Liza x
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| Zenitha |
Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 7:51:22 PM
What a sad, sad story, I really feel for your poor friend 
It is also very frightening, and could happen to any of us. Thank you for the information, I will make sure all of mine receive the wormer type you mentioned.
Hugs for your friend xx |
| saddlebred |
Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 12:18:46 PM
So so sorry for your friends loss Terri.
I am paranoid about worms. I lost my first horse after 6 weeks of ownership to encysted red worm. He was a beautiful 2 year old PBA who I had bought because he was poor. I had wormed him twice but the worms were already in his bloodstream and the wormers then didnt touch it. It was a horrible death as the larvae ate through his intestine wall.
I religiously wormed every 6 - 8 weeks for years until the vets started recommending strategic worming 4 times a year. I have had mine worm counted but it is so scary to think that there may be something not showing up.
Thank you for sharing this sad story which I hope will save many more lives.
Big hugs to your friend |
| marionpack |
Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 11:00:58 AM
What a sad outcome, but thankfully for the post mortem it has probably save the lives of the other foals, |
| Goldenmane |
Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 07:50:45 AM
So sorry, poor little girl. Thank you for all the information, it just goes to show that we can never stop learning. Say sorry to your friends for their loss from me and thank you for sharing the information. |
| Suelin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 9:56:53 PM
That is so sad. Poor little filly. Thankyou for the info. Something to be stored definitely. |
| Berryscroft |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 9:49:24 PM
Hi Callisto - apparently there is a blood test for this particular tapeworm but only one lab does it and I am not sure which one, but if anyone needs to know I could pass on the details of the vet which my friend uses and they may be able to help with this information. |
| Callisto |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 9:29:58 PM
I am so very sorry for your friend - how very tragic.
Thank you for the information about the wormers. On our vet's advice (and to prevent increasing resistance to the current wormers) we submit each horse's droppings to the vet for a worm count and then worm as per the vet's recommendation (last time the 2 eldest didn't need worming - aged 19 & 22, but the younger 3 did). However I wonder whether the need to worm against this particular tapeworm would be picked up by this method? I will certainly check with our vet. I know it is small consolation to the filly's owners, but at least this was discovered and this year's foals have been treated. |
| kath |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 9:16:28 PM
How totally tragic :( I am so so sorry for your friend - heartbreaking
But thank you so much for the information. We only worm once a year now for tapeworm, and worm count the rest of the time and just worm once for encysted redworm and it hasnt seemed to affected ours, but its always very interesting to hear of any more research/news that could be beneficial to horse welfare |
| kathleen |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 9:12:47 PM
I am sorry to hear about this sad news
RIP little Filly |
| Nut |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 8:51:55 PM
So sorry for your friends loss. Thank you for sharing the information. x |
| Berryscroft |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 8:43:53 PM
This is quite a long one - sorry it's been so long since my last post, such a lot has happened and the news is not good.
Just 2 days after the antibiotics and the painkillers stopped, this lovely filly went backwards very fast. She started the walking backwards and lying down again, was not interested in food at all and was obviously in pain. The vet was visiting on a daily basis and left high dose pain killers for her. He advised worming her with a double dose of a well known wormer for tapeworm, which they did, no worms were seen in her droppings after this worming. The vet was not at all happy with how this filly was going and my friend was sick with worry and very upset seeing her precious filly like this and they made the decision between them to end her suffering and she was PTS last week.
Obviously distraught, my friend has not been able to speak about this until now, I have just come back home after staying with her since Monday.
As terribly upsetting as this has been for all concerned it is also a huge lesson in youngstock management and may be of interest to those who posted on the 'Worming foals' thread. My friend has been connected with horses for over 40 years, as has her husband and this is the first time they have ever lost a young horse. The vet told them that he has 4 yearlings under his care at this time (their filly was by far the worst and the first one he has lost) who are showing these symptoms. All these horses come from large well run studs/yards where their worming programmes and pasture management is second to none, either poo-picking every day or harrowing on a regular basis.
My friends have always wormed all their foals on a regular basis following a worming programme laid out by the leading wormer manufacturers. Their filly was wormed with a double dose of wormer containing Pyrantel Embonate on 29th April - no worms were seen in her droppings after this wormer. She was wormed with a popular 'worm only 4 times a year' containing Moxidectin on 11th July and double dosed with the wormer containing Pyrantel Embonate, on the vet's advice, on 23rd July. Again, nothing seen in her droppings. Obviously I cannot use the brand name of these wormers but if you would like any more info please PM me.
The vet asked if he could do a post mortem examination on their filly and he found that this filly had a worm burden (apparently a rare member of the tapeworm family) which has become resistant and almost immune to the drugs used in wormers and not affected by Moxidectin and Ivermectin at all. Where the wormer used in July may have cleared any round worm/red worm or encysted redworm this rare tapeworm had embedded in the larger tube of the cecum and reproduced forming a large ball and he said the colon had started to invert causing a blockage and consequently excruciating pain for this poor filly and there would have been no way back from this for her.
They have had 2 foals this year and have wormed them as they always had. They were wormed on the same dates as the yearling, no worms found in their droppings after these wormings. Following the loss of the yearling filly, on 2nd August they gave the foals a double dose of the wormer containing Pyrantel Embonate and the following day and for 36 hours after this worming a large amount of worms were found in their droppings. This was a shocking discovery for my friends as these foals had only been wormed with the recommended wormer for the time of year on 11th July, just 3 weeks before.
Their vet says to worm for tapeworm in July and October, not the recommended Spring and Autumn.
Obviously, everyone has their own story to tell and their own opinion regarding worming, but I thought sharing this tragic story might be a slight 'eye-opener' regarding worming and which drugs we put into our horses. Even though I have had worm egg counts done on my 4 for the past 2 worming times I am going to now dose them with the double dose Pyrantel Embonate as this has scared me a bit, I have to admit.
Thanks for reading this far and I am sorry I could not bring the news we all wanted to hear.
Terri
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| Pauline |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 9:49:48 PM
After all those antibiotic the filly will need something to support her liver.
Do get your friend to speak to Roger Hatch.
The symptoms do sound toxic in some way.
Pauline |
| Berryscroft |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 9:28:32 PM
I have just spoken to my friend and she says her filly is about the same as yesterday, she spent today on her feet too ! She has been taken for little nibbles of grass (until she loses interest) about 12 times today and she thinks she is looking a little better in her coat.
The vet is coming to see her again tomorrow. She had already asked the question about liver function and the vet said her colour would not have been so good if there was anything going on with her liver.
Last day of antibiotics tomorrow, so everything crossed now.
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| pinkvboots |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 2:46:36 PM
I do hope she is OK sounds like the antibiotics are starting to work, keep us up dated on her progress. |
| Berryscroft |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 09:52:40 AM
Hi Suyents - I do not know the answer to that one, but believe the blood tests were fairly comprehensive as the vet chose to send to Newmarket as opposed to his usual lab. I don't think a urine test has been done yet though, although the vet phones every day to check on any progress. The antibiotics are due to finish Tuesday, so they are waiting to see what happens after that. I haven't heard anything today yet and if there was bad news I'm sure she would have called. Still have fingers crossed for her.  |
| suyents |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 12:11:03 AM
i too feel thatthere is some sort of systemic poisoning going on here..has your friend checked out her liver and kidney functions yet? |
