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T O P I C R E V I E W
bigmac
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 4:04:12 PM My horse will not ride out by herself, she hacks out wonderfully with company, be it another horse, walker, cyclist etc and if i take her out for walks in hand she's the most chilled out, calm pony, not spooky at all, we've been trying walking out in hand and then getting on and riding back, not too bad yesterday but then today a total disaster again, we walked past a traffic cone while i was on the ground and she didn't bat an eyelid, i get on and we turn around to walk back and suddenly the traffic cone, the very same one we've JUST walked past has now become the biggest mountain lion ever so much so that its worth running backwards into the road when a van is coming then throwing yourself about like an idiot, i have to get off AGAIN at this point as she's rooted in the middle of the road, now cars waiting in both directions and so i walked her home again she spooks at everything while i'm on her yet doesn't bat an eyelid at anything if i'm on the ground, and is napping on the way home too, as soon as something spooks her thats it, she roots to the floor and refuses to budge if i push her she goes backward...i'm beginning to think she hates me, i'm about ready to give up as i know we're just becoming a danger on the road and people will start complaining about us soon only problem is i hardly ever have anybody to come out with me and with the lovely weather now here thought it would be nice to get out a bit more!!
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
bigmac
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 09:47:30 AM Gone from bad to worse, she will hack out lovely with somebody on foot/bike, with another horse AND somebody on foot was going fine too, but now having lost the person on foot have discovered she is terrible in company, so long as they're just walking she is fine and seems fine if she is in front but if the other horse is in front and starts to trot she totally loses the plot...roots to the spot, leaps in the air, bucks, spins etc, soon as the other horse stops and waits for her she walks off fine again. Due to health issues i'm supposed to only be "quietly hacking" sent her to a friends yard and they had exactly the same problems with her, fine in the school etc but when hacked out with another completely lost it again.
Bonnie
Posted - 08 Aug 2010 : 7:58:09 PM I did have two weeks of fantastic riding ,when I got her about six weeks ago ,when we passed everything no bother.Its not because she's spooky ,she just won't go out from the yard ,or if i lead her anywhere its minimal effort,a quick nap then when my time runs out its back home.Actually she's got a great sense of humour!All the years I've had horses/arabs I've never not been able to ride them forward eventually,Set myself a 'plan ' for the next month.Will let you know outcome.
LesleyH
Posted - 07 Aug 2010 : 11:59:14 PM I am so glad I read these messages. I have the same problem with my 14 year old boy. He does exactly the same on the road, stops dead (Arab alert, danger ahead), reverses at speed in the middle of the road, or stops and just plants himself. I am sure the locals are fed up with us. I can hear them saying, Oh No, it's the barmy red head out again! He's very spooky and will also rear when stressed or even excited, i.e. if he sees another horse in the country park. Unfortunately I have to do roadwork to get to bridlepaths and the park. And why is it that when someone comes out of their front door and slams it, or closes a car door, or starts their lawnmower up, it's always just as you are going past! I do all the in hand work, long reining, schooling, even spook busting in our paddock yet everything is still SO very scarey out there in the real world. Every now and then though, he gives me a treat and we do make it to the bridlepath without too much hesitation, but only sometimes, he doesn't want to spoil me, ha ha.
Bonnie
Posted - 07 Aug 2010 : 9:13:25 PM My mare started naping just over 2 weeks ago ,I ride/walk her almost every day.today got her to ride up the lane from my yard (which was the problem).This was great after 2 weeks!Then it sounded like 2 motorbikes started very loudly out of sight at top of lane,I have come to the conclusion its a scary lane and a bit dark and now this has happened will she go up in morning?Led her along canal and got on on a bridleway,rode for about 20 mins then the napping started again.I always ride out from yard,refuse to turn back try to do a loop,I do have an issue getting on ,I insist she stands still as I had a fall two years ago ad have a bad leg.Any further advice would be welcome.
Callisto
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 7:16:38 PM Just a small thing, but I have found that when riding out on horses I am not sure about on my own (my last 2 have been four year olds), singing (tunelessly I'm afraid) has been useful for relaxing me and therefore them - it makes you breath. They don't seem to mind if you can only remember one song - Lily hacks out to "She'll be coming round the mountains when she comes" - lots of verses, and years ago poor Harley had lots of hymns . It really does help - they are looking to you for confidence (if this is what her issue is). Good luck - she sounds a real sweetie.
LIV
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 7:13:58 PM Hi
I think most people go through this at some point with horses and it does get better but certainly isn't any fun!
I would definately agree with Caryn (Kharidian) about not turning round and heading back home. It's not always easy to find a circular route but if you have just one it would be worth just sticking to it until she gets more confident with it. I've found that if you turn around they eventually start doing it closer and closer to home.
Another thing that has always helped me is to warm up at home and then trot out of the yard. One of my mares used to nap really badly so my instructress advised me to do this and it really helped. They have too much time to look at things in walk and start thinking about being backward.
Hope you start to enjoy hacking more. Liv
Bonnie
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 4:59:32 PM I've just bought myself a 10yr old arab chestnut mare ,well 6 weeks ago,last Thursday she put her anchors on and refused to go even a step forward,started backing up at speed or doing nothing at all if I tried to get her going forward.I've tried everything but drew the line at beating her to death!I intially didgive her 1 hard smack but as I acheived nothing continued to try everything else .She eventually (1hr)walked back to yard so I continued to urge her up past the yard to no avail.She quickly realised where the danger spots are ,ie fence car tree and tried to back into these,little monkey.....2hrs trying then it was darkso had to give up.FRi tried for 1 hr,sat 1hr .This morning ,always ride out of yard then she stopped again ,led her to steps off canal,got on same again,after 1 1/2 hrs came home,Lunged her in feild,up lane,then schooled her in feild THEN she marched straight out of yard and up lane,Counldn't beleive her.Not had her long so didn't know if she'd buck ,rear etc,we've been out alone and with company regularly from day one .think she's just telling me when SHE'S redy we'll go .love her to bits already,I know this will take time,,and that she's testing me,she's def not frightened or insecure.Worse than kids!!!!!
bigmac
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 07:36:03 AM I'm glad it's not just me with this very frustrating problem, Molly is the same in company, she's very brave and happy to go first or last, not really spooky at all. I don't have company anymore though so really stuck now (other than when i can persuade the other half he is in need of a good walk)
honey
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 12:03:55 AM big mac, i have this prob with my coloured mare. Its a security issue as with you she will walk anywhere in hand on her she refuses to go by anything that might eat her and smacking her ect is a waste of time. she hacks 100% in company, in front behind. Although she finds everything spooky going shes not spooky coming home. I have got her doing one little hack thats about 2 miles comfortably and its just i hacked her up and down this road so many times in company and she knows shes not far from home. Shes alot better if i take her somewhere she doesn't know as well. Its so furstrating and has meant i haven't been able to ride her over winters as she won't hack. I have some company this year though, so i will get to ride a few times. Have to say my purebred is so brave hes scared of nothing and would hack anywhere, but he used to nap at the start but he was a lot easier to solve a smack on the rump and he soon stopped it.
bigmac
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 10:54:47 PM Thankyou for all the great advice everybody, there's lots of ideas there for me to think about and work on. I think i will try and find somebody who can come and ride her for me first so i can see if the problem is her or more to do with my lack of confidence, at least we'll be sure then which one of us needs working on
Pony slave
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 1:28:33 PM
You poor thing, soooo frustrating for you. There is great advice on here, I would certainly advocate longreining, really drive her on past the dragons and if you can feel the nap coming drive her through it, if you are not confident using long reins get hold of someone that is as can easliy end up in a big pile of knitting!!
I do hope you get her sorted,
PS xx
Qui Gon Jinn
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 1:18:32 PM I've has something similar from Merlyn! He has just turned 5 though and only broken this year!
He doesn't spook, but stops when he is on his own and refused to go on and will back away, he isn't frightened in any way, just testing to see if he can get away with it!! I put up with this for several days, getting off him and leading him on and then getting back on him, which would work for a few feet and then he would plant himself again before reversing!
What has worked for me is to turn him round and reverse him back the way I actually want to go! He was so surprised by this that when I turned him round again and drove him forward with my seat and legs, he went willingly and didn't try to stop or reverse again. His napping has become much less but any time he tries to back away, I simply turn him round and back him up a few week and then turn round and carry on.
Not sure if it will help you with your mare, but worth a try.
Good luck.
Montikka
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 11:14:48 AM Completely understand how you feel bigmac - I had a break from riding and felt the same - I had a horse that would not work alone with me, she was young and it was a mixture of her trying it on and us both lacking a leader! She would rear inhand, bellow and run sideways, buck etc. Always fine in company though. I asked an ex- NH Jockey friend (who is fearless) to take her out solo a couple of times. It was quite remarkable how he just got on, no nonsence, and rode her away! A few spooks etc but nothing major because she was looking to him for leadership. He was up on the gallops and riding alone on the roads within an hour.
So now when I feel nervous, I think what would Robbie (the jockey do)? The old mantra - 'Keep riding calmly forward' has worked for all sorts of difficult behavior. At the moment you are both probably like two little friends telling each other ghost stories
geegee
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 10:32:03 AM You've had some great advice already but I would just like to add that perhaps you should contact a Recommended Associate (RA) from intelligent horsemanship.
Whereabouts are you? I could try and find a contact for you, if you like. Failing that, you could just google....
If you could just have one visit and be given the "tools" to work with, this will not only boost your confidence but enable you to continue in the right direction.
I totally understand where you are coming from. My mare had very small comfort zones and I had to move her out them VERY, VERY SLOWLY. Every new experience was a complete drama for her and as our relationship improved the dramas lessened. This is when you know you have built a bond and the trust is there.
Clicker training works wonders too. I prefer Alexandra Kurland's methods. It gives the horse something to focus on instead of finding things for themselves.
Always reward the good behaviour and ignore the bad. I'm a firm believer in positive reinforcement.
Good luck
Quarabian
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 10:01:01 AM Maybe when you ride out with others you are less likely to anticipate the pheasants etc. Good advice has been given already, but I wonder how you can teach yourself not to tighten up when you think there is a danger coming. Horses can feel the slightest tension or even a change in your forward thinking. It is possible that this is what is causing the napping as she actually picks up from you that there is a reason to stop and check something out.
If you feel more confident on the ground (like I do) get off and lead her. There is no shame in that and she hasn't 'won' if you then get her walking forward again. Good Luck
Lynda
pinkvboots
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 09:41:09 AM I know how you feel but don't give up, have you got someone else there that is a very confident rider that could take her out and see if she does the same? I would stay off the road and be safe, I never ride Arabi on the road now he is terrified of moving traffic and with the time I persevered it never got better, I am lucky we have loads of off road riding, and he goes out happily on his own luckily he always has. You say she is OK if someone is with you on foot or a bicycle, maybe try setting out together and get them to hang back out of sight after a while. I hope you get it sorted out but your not alone so many horses wont go out alone. Good luck x
bigmac
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 09:00:34 AM I think i'm being firm and confident with her, at least trying to be but maybe not enough so and like you say she's picking up on that, i do have a terrible habit of predicting every possible disaster that could occur on the road (i.e pheasant flies up out of verge, horse spooks just as car coming past and we land on top of car, speeding vehicle coming round bend runs straight into us, loose dog comes out of garden and chases us down road....i could go on all day) ummmmm so yes sounds like a big part of the problem is ME i can hardly expect her to walk out confidently when there's me sat on top forseeing all these possible dangers and most likely worrying her too! Maybe we do need to stay off the road for now, i don't have a school but was planning on post and railing an area in the corner of the field to turn into a working area so that may have to do.
Montikka
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 08:10:00 AM Hi bigmac is it possible that you feel unconfident when you're on-board? I get the feeling that if she is happy to be led out without other horses, she should be able to be ridden out. So, when you are riding, if you feel apprehensive she is picking up on this. Quite understandable that you should feel this way on the roads. Could you do a lot more ridden work away from the dangers of traffic to build up your confidence and get her listening to you? She sounds as though she needs a very confident, firm leader to help her deal with her anxieties this is not easy if you feel anxious too. -Do you have a school to work her in? It is very important to have her listening to YOU and not have a chaperone whilst schooling, only then is it safe to take her on the roads. Perhaps a few lessons would help too. Good luck!!
bigmac
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 07:47:59 AM We do have a circle we can walk and have miles of wonderful track rides straight out of our gate (i just can't manage the 8 mile walk round) i don't turn her as soon as i get on we do continue forward for a few metres before we turn, i had hoped we would move further forward each time before turning back but it really depends on what happens at the time, if i get on and she remains calm and relaxed we can continue forward for a few metres before turning but it's if she spooks at something then she refuses to move and if this happens as soon as i get on then we just won't go anywhere sometimes not even back the way we come she just backs up whenever i ask for a forward movement, spins (no matter which direction i turn to) soon as i get off again she's fine and will walk either way.
Kharidian
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 10:49:56 PM In my opinion you've answered it yourself when you say "I get on and we turn around to walk back"......I think there & back walks/rides etc are to be avoided at all costs, for this very reason! Circular routes are the way to go, or, if not possible, there and back with a small circular detour at the turning point so your horse isn't just turning around to return.
I know I am very fortunate to have a variety of varying circular routes and Chips (13 months) will walk boldly around any of them - not knowing when he's heading home again and therefore equally ongoing where ever we happen to be. I did the same with Roger as a baby and can honestly say he has NEVER napped in all his 17 years walking/under saddle/in harness.
I think you'll have a big task ahead of you, but please try and be creative and get away from "there & back".
Caryn
bigmac
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 8:50:47 PM Thankyou for your replies, will certainly give anything a go, don't want to give up, she's such a sweet girl (in every other way) i wonder if it's my own lack of confidence rubbing off onto her, i'll try some long reining with her and see how that goes. Just popped back and tucked her in for the night and she still came straight over for a scratch so must still like me a little bit!!
Fee
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 7:55:11 PM Hi bigmac,
I would recommend some groundwork to build your leadership/her confidence in you. Get her moving around until you can move her from your energy/body language, then you are really talking to her and she is really listening to you. Another good thing is to stay back at her back as you 'drive' her around. That way she is used to being in front with you leading her. Use the same tone and commands when on her back and all your leadership skills on the ground should transfer when in the saddle and she should feel confident. Or, as others have suggested I would do some long reining. I'm sure it does much the same thing as 'driving' as it's called in NH approaches.
Ditto others, it takes time, you will get there, don't give up.
Hope that helps some
Fee
bigmac
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 5:39:51 PM Well the really terrible thing is she's 21 so she really has no excuse....i say to people "she can't help it she's just a baby" trying to find an excuse for her She is fine when she's in company it's not even that she needs to have a lead, as she's quite happy to ride out in front, she rides out well and confidently at the front she doesn't stop to look behind or worry where the other one is just knowing they're back there somewhere seems to do the trick, i bought her last year she was out of work and had been for 2 years due to the lady having had a baby, i just wanted a happy light hack, she's very well for her age and full of life, she's the sweetest nature, always comes running to say hello as soon as i get there, loves attention, being groomed etc, she does nip at me on occasion for no apparent reason but other than that is really loving. I started just walking her out in hand to get us used to each other and to see how she was in different situations and with traffic etc and she was very sensible and always keen to get out so i then started to hack her out with company or with my partner walking with it so it wasn't until i decided to go out one day on our own that i discovered we had this problem, as she's always been happy to ride out in front it never occured to me that she may be lacking in confidence but that does seem to be what it is, well either that or she's totally taking the mickey out of me
shah
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 5:24:01 PM Forgot to mention the wip-wop, the best tool I've ever used for nappers.
shah
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 5:22:35 PM I sympathise entirely, having had three nappers on the trot despite being a confident rider I've come to the conclusion that all arabs are the same. They all lack confidence and are scatty - don't shoot me, it's just my opinion based on three arabs I've had and about ten that I had the pleasure of riding last year when trying to buy a horse.
Like you I have been down about it and it's one of the most frustrating problems you can have, it really is. It tears you down and makes you feel extremely inadequate. You just want to scream and cry and wonder what on earth you're doing wrong. Anyway, there is hope, although it won't feel like it for a while, it can take months to resolve so you need patience - lots of it
Some tips: > Natural horsemanship/Parelli work is extremely useful > Long reining is excellent > You need to work out why she's napping, is it pain, is it confidence, is it naughtiness, does she suffer from separation anxieties etc. > Ride extremely confidently with your leg on all the time > Sitting still for hours in one spot works for some > Reversing past the scary object/nappy spot (with mine it was often nothing scary, just a particular tree they didn't want to go past) works for some > Giving them the choice of working hard in the school or go for a nice little hack works for some > Getting on/off lots and lots of time work for some
And don't worry, she doesn't hate you. My boy hates me, he tried to kick and bite me today, ears back, wouldn't even allow me to put my hand on his neck. By the sound of your post your mare isn't that bad so there's plenty of hope
so much so that its worth running backwards into the road when a van is coming then throwing yourself about like an idiot, i have to get off AGAIN at this point as she's rooted in the middle of the road, now cars waiting in both directions and so i walked her home again 
she spooks at everything while i'm on her yet doesn't bat an eyelid at anything if i'm on the ground, and is napping on the way home too, as soon as something spooks her thats it, she roots to the floor and refuses to budge if i push her she goes backward...i'm beginning to think she hates me, i'm about ready to give up as i know we're just becoming a danger on the road and people will start complaining about us soon 
only problem is i hardly ever have anybody to come out with me and with the lovely weather now here thought it would be nice to get out a bit more!! 
