| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| geegee |
Posted - 06 Jun 2009 : 09:23:37 AM
Last week, a friend of ours was bringing a mare back from stud in their trailer and was stopped by the Police and 2 DEFRA officials (Notts area).
The policeman was a traffic officer, very arrogant and said to my fried that he wanted to see a passport for the horse. Unfortunately my friend didn't have it with him. It was a bit of a rush picking the mare up as the stallion had covered her once and then dropped dead! Stud was upset and wanted the mare collected asap. This was explained to the DEFRA officials who then took friend's details but no details of the horse (?)
Traffic officer continued to check over the vehicle and trailer, told my friend that he would have to spend some money on his trailer soon as the tyre levels were getting low. Friend advised him that he was completely aware of the levels! which is why they hadn't been replaced....
And that was it. Off they went and now he has no idea what will happen, whether there will be any fine or not????? And why didn't they take details of the horse?
Any one else had a similar experience?
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| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Pauline |
Posted - 09 Jun 2009 : 12:24:25 PM
With all these rules and laws it still does not stop theft both of horses and tack.
Isn't it about time the police did something about this problem.
A passport is easy to get hold of so thieves can easily get one.
The law abiding citizon is being got at with all these laws.
I often take 2 horses on my own to places,am I breaking the law (Always have the correct passports with me)
What happens if you need urgently to take a horse to the vets and the passport is at home, will you be breaking the law not having the passport with you.
Pauline |
| geegee |
Posted - 09 Jun 2009 : 08:13:53 AM
Thanks for the finding that out, Carrie. DEFRA website is not easy to navigate around....
I take my lorry and 2 horses each week to a local arena, for training. I travel them on my own. On that basis, I am breaking the law???? Are they saying that the extra person has to be a groom? somebody horsey? What is the minimum age of the extra person....
I think I might have to speak to DEFRA. |
| carrie b |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 9:33:58 PM
Thanks, Lisa, but as I understand it winnings don't count as economic activity - especially if you don't win!
This is copied off the BHS website (my Bold)
The Regulation does not apply to the transport of animals:
· Where the transport is not in connection with an economic activity
· Transport to or from veterinary practices under veterinary advice
· When an individual horse is transported by its owner, or other responsible person (likewise two horses, accompanied by two such persons).
· Transportation of horses by hobby breeders, where income source does not exceed expenses of hobby.
Horses transported to competitions or shows for pleasure, even when they win minor cash prizes, are not deemed to be covered by the regulation. However this must not be part of the transporters business but related to their hobby.
Likewise, individuals attending competitions for pleasure who share the cost of petrol, but where no profit is made by the individual carrying out the transport, are excluded from the regulation providing that every horse is accompanied by a person who has responsibility for its welfare (for example, 2 horses would need to be accompanied by 2 people).
So I'm OK with 2 horses as long as I bring a friend. Thankfully my advanced age means I don't have to worry about taking a trailer towing test. I'm fine just as long as you DON'T WATCH ME!!!! |
| leezee26 |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 6:07:48 PM
Hi Lisa, there are supposed to be new laws in now about towing your own horse in a trailer I thought. I know that whenever you travel a horse you are supposed to have theri passports, I know I always had to carry a Hunting livery's when I delivered him to a meet. Someone said for £60 or £70 you could do this day course, that allowed you to travel other peoples horses. Did this stop happen locally. Bit concerned as my friend is travelling his horse up to Rossdales with suspected Grass sickness in the morning, last thing he needs is to get stopped! Leighx |
| geegee |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 5:41:00 PM
I have been looking into these animal in transit certificates, as I read it the same as you Carrie....
It is only if you are transporting horses for economical activity. i.e hire, reward, winnings etc So that means prize money at shows, I guess?
If you are just transporting two horses to a clinic or arena, then you don't need one. |
| carrie b |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 5:25:51 PM
Oo-er.. I'm hoping to take two of my horses to a show next month. Sounds like I will need one of these Animal in Transit thingies. Where does one get them from and - do I have to pay? |
| lynette |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 10:34:49 AM
DEFRA do not have the authority to stop and check. Only the Police or VOSA can do that which is why a uniformed policeman always accompanies DEFRA officials.
GeeGee whoever told your friend that is getting confused with the rules. If you operate for Hire and Reward it doesn't matter how many horses are on the lorry your need an Operator's Licence unless the vehicle is under 3.5 tonne when this law does not apply but you must still keep records and hold the Animals in Transit Certificate and Authorisation Number.
However the Animals in Transit Regulations state that if you are travelling your own(0ne)horse then you do not need to hold the Animal in Transit Certificate but if you are travelling 2 or more you do.
From next month there will be a lot more livetock carriers/trailers pulled in for checks especially private ones.
Artro I have always found that if you are pleasant and cheerful to the Police then you get the same back as after all like you say they are only doing their job.
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| artro |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 01:17:25 AM
Being a police widow , i feel its only right to to defend the police, on this matter the policeman was only ther probably to to back defra up and so looked over the vechicals ,because thats what they do and not looking horses up against the passport allthough they wil probably do it in time, and i dont think they are there to build their own egotistical importance at all! they are there do a job just like the rest of us . |
| geegee |
Posted - 06 Jun 2009 : 11:59:27 AM
It was definately 2 DEFRA officials as the traffic officer took great delight in telling my friend that as he couldn't produce a passport that he was going to get his "2 official friends from DEFRA out of his vehicle" and off he went to get them....
I agree with you Lynette, I really don't think that they know what they are supposed to be doing. Another friend who has an operators licence was told that she didn't need it if she was only carrying one horse? She wasn't sure of this and is going to get this confirmed. Do you know if this is correct?
It makes a mockery of the system if they don't even look at the horse against the passport... |
| pat ww |
Posted - 06 Jun 2009 : 11:26:49 AM
Lynette, you probably will be stopped more than most just because you do the horse transport, they are too dumb to know you from the dodgy horse thieves etc.
I followed a large animal wagon along the motorway a few months back, I KNOW it was doing something unlawful because it was so dark, no high marker lights, no sign writing, and the greyest paintwork for camoflage. The number plate was dirted out, so it couldn't be read. so I couldn't even take the number and phone anyone official to get it checked out.
Might of course not had livestock but illegal immigrants, but it was definately very dodgy. |
| lynette |
Posted - 06 Jun 2009 : 10:57:40 AM
It sounds like you were pulled in for a normal Ministry Roadside Check. Was it DEFRA Officials or Trading Standards? Defra would only have been concerned in regards to the Welfare issue it is Trading Standards that are responsible for the Passport and the fact you did not have it with you, which you should have done as the mare had been away at stud and passport should have been with the stud whilst your mare was there. The Law alters next month on the 1st July when a passport must be carried at all times if a horse is in a wheeled vehicle for whatever purpose and the Police will be involved and as your friend found out are already asking for passports.
I took great delight on being stopped and checked for the 3rd time in 3 weeks to take the young girl to task on being asked for my Holding Number that she was asking for the wrong information and that she actually wanted by Authorisation Number. She started spouting the law regarding Holding Numbers until her Boss pointed out she was actually wrong and I was correct. I then informed her that if she wanted to do her job correctly she should also get in the back of the lorry and check the passport against the horse after all she only had my word there was one horse in there. Exit one embarressed Official. I don't mind anybody doing their job but do it correctly |
| pat ww |
Posted - 06 Jun 2009 : 09:32:32 AM
My guess is they were looking for something in particular, maybe a report of a stolen horse. and traffic police are like that, they dont have real crime to solve so they have to make it just to rise to the level of their own egotistical self importance. |
