| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BeckyBoodle |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 01:43:01 AM
We had dinner tonight with very nice neighbours - he professes to be v horsey. When I mentioned I had a horse and wanted to do dressage he was immediately v interested - he has done it all, local shows, country shows, you name it. Then I said she was an Arab. Well you should have seen the look on his face. It basically said don't be stupid, Arabs do in-hand and possibly endurance, but definitely nothing more. Well. It ****ed me off.
I know have taken a risk. I bought Eba at 18 months. I always wanted a black arab, which she is. I want a horse to do dressage and light endurance ie pleasure rides. Her grand sire - Mista Beaugangles was known for endurance and producing endurance horses. I know she has cow hocks, but that said, I had the chiro out to her about 2 months ago as a learning experience, and since then she has changed no end.
But the main reason I bought her - and she was the one and only horse I saw which I know is against all the rules but I had seen black horses where she was located and I had always thought how much I wanted one of those - was that her front end moved with such looseness and fluidity, that I thought if you could just engage the hindquarters she will literaly just float. Her breeding is heavily Babson, with a bit of Sireccho, CMK, Crabbet and new Egyption. She should make about 15.1 or so.
I know I have taken a risk, but I could have bought a Trakehener etc at the same age and it would be no more of a risk. Why is it that so many people right you off once you 'fess up to owning an Arab?
B
   |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| DenmoorStud |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 7:39:26 PM
Many of the Warmbloods are ruined, by thoughtless people who should be riding a motorbike, not a horse.
I have a Westphalian Mare, who I am looking after, she the sweetest mare but blows if she is put under pressure, by a demanding and thoughtless rider. |
| sammie_85 |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 6:13:03 PM
thanks gossy. i had looked at that website last night and the pic of their youngster is "thinner" than by boy. Been speaking to a vet friend and she said she thinks he is fine so i can stop worrying now!!! |
| faymouse |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 2:04:19 PM
It is such a fad now to have bigger and bigger Warmbloods for Dressage and it seems that is what you have to have if you are really competative, they are usually very easy to train but can have sudden unpredictable outbursts when they explode for little reason it seems. I have a Belgian Warmblood and this is him exactly. He gives no warning, goes through what ever strop it is, i.e. being tied,when he will break free and rush off,you go and get him, he,s fine again or sudden spooks where he will spin around and try to head for home.I have come off him more times in 3 years than 30 years of Arab riding! The rest of the time he is a total plod. He does a good dressage test if he's in the mood! My Arab is always consistant, he is kind willing and always try's his best and has also done some dressage and been praised on his movement and beauty but I think he prefers to be more of a free spirit! I certainly know who gives the best ride!
I think people who don't cope with Arabs are often those who like to force a horse rather than ask them and are just too insensitive people. |
| brychens mum |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 12:19:10 PM
to answer the original poster, Princeton Mariner a Bay Babson stallion was grand prix level at dressage in the US. It might be worth you looking at Ultimatedressage website in the US. There are lots of posts about Arabs in dressage.
I guess the main problem for dressage with Arabs would be the fact that judging of photos many are being bred for a completly flat back from saddle to tail, plus if show trained the muscle development would I guess be for a stretched up pose. For dressage with the demand for the hind quaters coming under and a rounded outline, so you can see why people assume that an Arab wouldnt do well.
Personally I hope when I get my Arab I will be able to prove people wrong on their preconceptions. I did get to 40 and 50 mile ER rides with my welsh cob having been told that not being an Arab he couldnt do long distance so I dont see that dressage with an Arab would be any more daunting in that respect!
Good luck competing with your horse. |
| tamila |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 07:25:07 AM
I believe that the arab can do absolutely anything if the human is able and willing. The number of 'arab haters' who really do not know much about them. They are always very surprised to find that most horses have arab in them when they have been used to improve their breed.
My neighbour some years ago asked me if mine were purebred as they were so calm and laid back and when I said yes she said that most people had told her that arabs were nutters. I explained that they certainly wwere not and that mine were probably the way they usually are. Kind, gentle, willing careful but forward going. |
| gossy |
Posted - 06 Jun 2009 : 11:24:02 PM
http://www.lwfwarmbloodhorses.com/2008/04/feeding-young-horses.html
Hope this helps. |
| sammie_85 |
Posted - 06 Jun 2009 : 11:07:13 PM
Nothing to do with arabs but some advice if someone knows about warmbloods! My warmblood baby arrived two weeks ago at 5 months and a week. Still with winter coat as was DEcember baby and now shed it all. Have been feeding nbim up cos he was a bit ribby but am aware that they say be careful as fat foals can damage legs, especially with warmbloods. He is having the recommended amount of youngstock mix and have been adding in some beet to give him some extra. he has been out grazing every day and does not eat all his haynet over night. Not sure of exact height but i am 5ft 8 and he is already up to about upper chest height. He was weighed a week ago for worming and is 215kg. However, vet cam out for jabs other day and told yard owner he is way too skinny. can vaguely see lines of couple of ribs if you look closely and he is nicely rounded. Now I am worrying he is too skinny but dont want to do him any damage! am i being paranoid may be about a vet who does not deal with WBs that often? He is growing upwards very quickly and all his feed must be going into height. HELP!!! |
| MinHe |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 11:59:03 PM
Originally posted by spirit
for Grand Prix level dressage you would possibly need a Warmblood or breed such as a Pura Raza Espanola (Andalusian) who are just as successful at top level Dressage.
I believe there's just as much prejudice against PREs and Luso in the higher levels of dressage. Which is ridiculous, as they are the *original* high school horses!!!! But then a lot of PREs and Lusos are stallions, and again, you just *don't* force stallions, or demand unquestioning obedience from them: stallions always want to know 'why', and if they agree it's a good idea, they'll go with you, otherwise - !
With the big warmbloods, I suspect there may also be a certain amount of "BCSD" (or BHSD) going on 
Keren |
| MinHe |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 11:51:56 PM
Originally posted by weirton
The other thing I've found over the years is that people who have only ridden Warmbloods etc. often find they can't get on with Arab-bred horses because, and I hope I can say this without offence, the horse is usually more intelligent than the rider!
Jean
The thing with a lot of the warmblood breeds is that they are descended from horses originally developed to pull guns in the 19th/early 20th century. And the last thing you want in an artillery horse is a tendency to think for itself. You want something that will just stand there and go "duh..." while all hell is breaking loose! That is why those people who use that awful driving seat, who constantly nag the horse and who use rollkur PREFER warmbloods...because the warmblood ain't gonna fight back.
Try any of that cr*p on an Arab, and you're likely to be history.
Jean, it's my general experience that you are quite right - it's those people who can't think as fast as an Arab that are afraid of them...and being afraid is what causes people to slag them off 
It's funny the number of people my old mare converted to Arabs, people who initially started off saying 'but Arabs are silly little things'. However, the one thing all the folk in question had in common were that they were smarter than the average dressage diva   . Needless to say, so was my old mare!!!!
Keren |
| Athena |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 10:43:20 PM
In defense of the dressage crowd, I must say I have recently started taking on photo jobs at local dressage events - both unaffiliated and affiliated to advanced level - and they seem a more open minded crowd than the whole pony club and showing scene I grew up with! Also, the range of different horses and ponies doing dressage is amazing. I see ponies and cobs as well as warmbloods - and the warmbloods vary between the scopey, refined more TB types and the real old-fashioned sorts that years ago I would have labelled Holstein types - almost cobby. Not many Arabs in my area generally but it is really lovely to see what a nicely schooled horse of any sort can do. Haven't had a rude reaction yet to having Arabs either. The horse world always seems to generate a few rude, opinionated and ignorant types but I don't think it is perculiar to dressage. In fact I'd say that the dressage world is slightly better off than some other equine areas. |
| s.jade |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 9:56:15 PM
I have both - a 16.1hh Polish WB, Alfie, who I brought back into work through the winter after 2 years off through injury. He now has 81 BD points.
And my little black purebred mare Nazika, now 18, who is as responsive, light, and capable as Alfie. Very different rides, and Nazika doesn't have the physical build to go all the way to the top levels (nor is age on her side to start learning new "dance moves" !) however, a well schooled and responsive horse should be able to complete a deent test regardless of breed, size or anything else, and judges...PLUS other competitors, should take note that they can |
| Grey Girl |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 8:12:47 PM
Wasn't there a New Forest pony some years ago that got to Grand Prix level at dressage? |
| DenmoorStud |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 5:12:03 PM
The Warmblood is a hybrid using the best of chosen breeds in order to create the ultimate for a chosen discipline, the Arabian and TB will feature in this to improve the characteristics. This is where the importance of grading comes into its own., hence the Warmbloods continued evolution in type and stature. The old Warmblood is quite different to the type we see today.
it does seem that some are under the misconception that the Warmblood is a European creation, not so we have breed them in the UK for many years under the guise of the Hunter, we just have not been so scrupulous in our documentation and grading. Many of these are to be found in our Part Bred registers, if these were stud books we would have a better chance to improve our British Breeding programs. |
| white bryony |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 11:17:09 AM
Poeple are very ignorant and rude when it comes to arabs, not so many haters I have come accross, but because my mare ties up, stands still and is behaved, the new girl at the yard was surprised she was an arab!! and thought she looked more like a thoroughbred , now this girl is not knoledgeable one bit, i felt quite cross, i am very protective about my girl , so she then commented that she must get silly being an arab!!! well she has her moments, but is not what people expect her to be lol.
The other day we met a huge lorry along the lane and she didnt bat an eyelid, she will canter behind, doesnt fizz, and she is learning to jump and thoroughly enjoys it, I am taking her on 2 xc training sessions, then on a riding holiday to focus on more sj and xc traing!! I cant wait but can imagin peoples faces when i unload an arab!
she is by far the best horse i have hadand the first arab.
Good luck with the dressage, with the right trainig you can go far, no matter what breed |
| sammie_85 |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 09:57:04 AM
saying that I am now doing reseach and there is holstein in there too! OOO, that took a lot but his great, great, great, great, great, great gran is a Shagya Arab! lol. thought I may find arab in there somewhere! if only very diluted |
| sammie_85 |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 09:50:09 AM
Problems with the owner basically. Had her booked in to go to stud, with owners agreement, and she then decided she didnt want her to go about three weeks before and I had paid and had her swabbed already! not the first problem so i had enough by that point.
New one is a quarter TB - Kings Composer - and no doubt will probably have some arab in there somewhere. His dad is Radetzky (Dutch WB) who is a maximillian Saluut grandson and his mum is a kings composer daughter (TBxDutch EB). In fact William Fox-Pitt had his half brother up until a week ago!
Saying that, i am in no doubt arabs are as good as, if not better than, warmbloods! |
| SarahA |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 9:55:26 PM
Hi. Me again. Please check out a stallion called Gomel, kossack stud, he died earlier last year but hopefully they still have his details on line, he won 48 tests out of something like 56 starts and was the national dressage champion for holland (and others) for several years running, they did have pics of him competing and he was stunning, my friend the hypocrite with the arab x also known as a dutch warmblood thought he was stunning and thought he would make a lovely match to amber, right up until she realised he was a full arab:) |
| Cinnypony |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 9:53:58 PM
It's odd every time I have lesson with my instructor, she says she doesn't like arabs and all the other blah blah blah arab stuff.
But by the end of the lesson she always says she's the most honest horse she's taught in ages. Also last lesson she decided that Cinny could be anything we wanted - jumping, dressage as she is such a willing versatile girl.
The one that made me laugh the most though was when we were doing clicker training - one task took Cinny 2 minutes to figure out - whereas my instructor's warmblood took 7 weeks to figure out the same thing  |
| saddlebred |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 9:23:22 PM
My friend recently won a test on an Arab and the judge actually wrote on the sheet "and I thought Arabs couldnt do dressage". I dont think they would write that about any other breed but it seems to be acceptable to say it about our lovely breed. A bit like the mad chestnut mare theory which is also rubbish.
I can remember the lovely Silent Fire from Sherif Pyramid stud who did all of the high school movements including piaffe and passage well into his 20's. Also his brother Silent King competed for Great Britain in under 14.2hh showjumping for the Horse and Pony magazine (showing my age now!).
I think that the main reason that Arabs havent historically done dressage is down to their size which prevented a lot of taller/heavier/male riders from choosing them. Now that Arabs are coming in bigger sizes perhaps we will start to see more in the dressage arena.
Warmbloods are definitely not the only horses to do dressage. Look at this purebred Saddlebred "Harry Callahan" doing one of his first Grand Prix tests at just 8 years of age:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRpjVbiUIAA - aaarghhh.... cant get link to work but if you put the name into Youtube there are quite a few videos of him.
|
| gossy |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 3:37:33 PM
This pure bred arab did very well in dressage, Ku-Ribi and her daughter in training will, but unless dressage judges have a serious blinkered view transplant i cant see them letting an arab win.
 |
| Pasha |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 2:13:24 PM
Ooops what happened there then?
What's his breeding?
Yes it does make me laugh (refering to previous posts) when people tell me they have a Hannovarian and then look in the passport and it's half TB, bit of Selle Francais, bit of Holstein... the list goes on! My friends BWB is actually Selle Francais x TB!!
Warmbloods aren't breeds, they're stud books! You're buying into their breeding standard! Which IMO is often very good! Well of course it would be with all that Arab blood in there |
| sammie_85 |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 1:54:30 PM
Well, I have to say what a hypocrite I am! After praising up my loaned Arab mare over a warmblood She has had to go back to her owner and I am now the proud owner of a 4 month old warmblood colt!!! |
| debbie_parkinson |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 9:55:57 PM
i agree with the comment above i have a warmblood and i was surprised to see how much Anglo Arab there is in her breeding it shocked me  but then i don't mind cause i love all breeds lol |
| Scarlet Arabian |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 07:53:17 AM
perhaps BeckyBoodle you could next time remind your dinner guest how much arab breeding may well be in his warmblood? to make it the horse it is today.
see how well that goes down!!!
 Abby |
| SarahA |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 12:07:05 AM
Have to agree that Arabs can do dressage, and it really is pure snobbery and somewhat a fashion fad to have big huge striding warmbloods, IMO if the judge cannot tell the difference between breed types and understand their movements then they shouldnt be a blooming judge.
I really arent a dressage fan, but i do love watching it at a very high level, however i am always amazed then my friends rave about this and that horses movement, but overlook the pony whom as far as I can see is performing the test perfectly and is moving beautifully. I might be wrong but surely dressage should be about a supple, responsive horse, with the ability to collect and lenthen strides etc. and if your highland/new forest/arab/welsh is doing all of this then surely they shouldnt be marked down because they are not a 17.1hh warmblood which obviously has a much larger stride, although IMO not as nice as an Arabians movement OR a Welsh Section D's movement.
Warmblood snobbery drives me absolutey NUTS, yes i would agree that there are some lovely warmblood horses around, but equally some very bad mixes, and people are quick to forget that warmblood only means hot x cold blood.
My friends registered Hanoveran mare was in actual fact a TB x Hanoverian, and if you checked the Hanoverian stallion he was actually out of a TB Mare by a Hanoverian Stallion, and that Hanoverian stallion was actually a Anglo Arab, so in actual fact what she had was a TB x SelleFrancis x Arab horse. Not that she would admit the Arab part
My other friends Warmblood gelding who is a registered Dutch Warmblood, is in actual fact another TB x Dutch warmblood, and that stallion was yet another cross, so what she actually has is a TB x Gronigen x Holsteiner x Arab (she wont admit to anything but Dutch Warmblood)
Sorry rant over, well nearly fashions can and do change and in 10 years time when the fashion for these huge horses as a dressage horse is over, what then, scrap heap and the new fad ?? |
|
|
