| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ArabianGlimmer |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 9:48:22 PM
Anyone going to or participating at the Scottsdale 2011 show this year? I won't be going but I plan on watching the live stream of it and highlighting moments on my blog.
I was just pondering this throughout the week when Arabian Girl had mentioned Scottsdale and it seemed like a good confirmation that I gotta integrate it!
So, will you be watching? Any particular class you will be glued to? Any thoughts on the show?
- Amy |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| lisa rachel |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 5:23:25 PM
Originally posted by Zan
Condemned??? Surely applauded, as anyone who speaks out against abuse should be!! It is disgusting what is done to our wonderful breed in the name of showing.
Exactly agree as usual Zan,( Hassan is great btw!  ).
I am shocked by Lynda's reply to this post (though I'm sure she is speaking from experience), it sounds like the mafia!!
Things have certainly got even worse than when Henry Wynmalen made the comment 50 years ago that ''money and jealousy are ruining showing''( slightly paraphrased).
What is it about these generous, noble, intelligent horses that they attract people who so markedly lack these virtues ??
OK, I know, as Lynda said £££££.
I just wish that these shallow, greedy, vain, heartless people  would vaunt their wealth by spending their money on property or art or cars or some other inanimate objects rather than sensitive animals.
Sadly the Arab horse is the victim of his own beauty  |
| Ennik |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 05:47:06 AM
Lyndilou ....Thank you for putting the whole thing so succinctly ..... Rose Ennik |
| debs |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 10:00:16 PM
That's awful.
Sadly ego's and £'s are far more important than some of these poor horses.
Honestly though, can anyone see it ever changing?
Very sad. |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 6:24:14 PM
Sadly Heather I have been threatened before for speaking out, the long arm of finance can be used no matter where you live in the world or how safe you feel in your little hideaway. ( I am too old and fear for my horses safety too much !
I know of one person who left the country for fear of his life because he dared to speak out about what he had seen with his own eyes! unspeakable cruelty I can tell you ! |
| Zan |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 6:04:01 PM
Condemned??? Surely applauded, as anyone who speaks out against abuse should be!! It is disgusting what is done to our wonderful breed in the name of showing. |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 3:25:44 PM
In Scottsdale as with many other shows it the States , the stand up seems to be the most important thing to them, to achieve this position with the horse never deviating its gaze at the handler , the horse is often intimidated by which ever means is effective. read into that what ever you like, but trembling horses, who snatch back their legs if the whip is moved, or twist their heads if the handler moves his stick towards it and will stay stock still like a statue until the signal is abated has known abuse.
although most of it happens behind closed door during training. I was told that Las Vegas was going to be different and more european in style, well I have been 3 times ( the last time I stayed for half an hour before walking out) and the only difference is the scoring point system . the horses still run in, heads in the air, afraid of being shanked, so I have now added that to my list of shows to avoid.
there, I guess I have said too much already and will be condemned as always , but hey, it wont be the first time and it wont be the last. |
| Tzarina |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 1:21:13 PM
I had always wanted to go to Scottsdale, but after hearing some terrible stories, I changed my mind entirely. If it was the only Arabian show left in the world, I still wouldnt go. |
| SueB |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 11:54:27 AM
I think anyone who writes about a show is putting their head on the block. I did a report for one overseas show and wrote it as I saw it. I mentioned a couple of horses that did look afraid, trembling and shaking seemingly afraid of their handlers.(not Brits) I mentioned this because these horses were unable to show off their abilities at the trot properly due to being afraid.
Whether they are afraid of their handler or just are afraid of the whole 'show thing' is equally the same. The abuse may not be whipping or beating but it comes hidden as a clock of dragging a poor animal around every blinking show going to get a rosette.(and possibly increase it's value)
Any living creature needs a holiday, like we all do (what is a holiday?)to be turned out in a lovely grassy field which not only calms the mind but helps keep the insides working well.
Look at how many colic's we see nowadays? horses are horses they need to have a break and lead life as naturally as possible for at least some part of the year.
We are obsessed with keeping horses clean and rugged to the hilt all the time, some do love dirt and mud and should be given the option to enjoy it.
Most of us are unhappy at the way the humble battery hen is kept, and yet we keep our horses almost in exactly the same conditions!
Whether your horse is clipped or oiled or shaven or polished makes no difference if it isn't a well constructed animal.
I do feel that in this country we have some of the best handlers, best horses and our shows should be better supported. I really hope we can keep our show horses here as they are, well cared for and shown sympathetically and so very well.
No one likes you to point out that their horse is afraid, but I wish more would. |
| Arabian Girl |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 10:08:56 AM
Hi Lynda..i know we talked about Scottsdale at Georgian Arabians open day.In what way are these horses abused,are they painfully shanked around,beaten? and are there some that arnt abused?I as you know have never been but would have liked to.I have only been to touristy bits in the US....but after reading this post by ArabianGlimmer i am feeling rather dazed by it... |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 08:59:26 AM
It has been written about before but always the subject is skirted around.
A true report would be hard to achieve without broaching the subject. cruelty and abuse are exactly that! I am much too emotional to ignore it so I am not the person for the job .
Liz Salmon has written before and I know she is against abuse , but she has to tread carefully , grasping the nettle could be too near to home as she lives there in the states . |
| Ennik |
Posted - 10 Jan 2011 : 06:06:27 AM
Perhaps a more qualified journalist/writer than you could be impinged upon to write an article on the difference between the American and British showing cultures and the British view on the presentation of horses. It would need to be handled diplomatically though for fear of ruffling feathers. I think you were wise to avoid writing about it yourself but it leaves the subject uncommented on and doesn't grasp the nettle! Whatever, I don't think there's much chance of changing it ... only of stating a case....... Rose Ennik |
| Kazzy |
Posted - 09 Jan 2011 : 4:00:29 PM
Spot on Lyndilou and well done for not doing a write up, like you said if you give these abusers credit by writing about them the more they will do it to fulfill their ego's.
Janet |
| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 09 Jan 2011 : 3:09:06 PM
I would say go once and see for yourself how people turn a blind eye to the abuse. I went once to write an article on the show then decided I wouldnt give them the satisfation, so wrote about a small but important stud near to my daughters home in Dallas, the home of the fabulous Spanish Sasaki instead. give credit only where credit is due and dont feed these peoples ego's by writing about them, anyway if you say anything negative you risk being sued by very wealthy owners ! |
| debs |
Posted - 09 Jan 2011 : 05:22:16 AM
Couldn't/ wouldn't pay money to see that i'm afraid. Rose, i'm sure most dont see it as abuse, but probably others wouldn't give it a 2nd thought or care either way....owners or handlers. I haven't seen a great deal, but wouldn't want see see any more.
LOVE looking at arabians but sadly most showing, the hyped up horses, noise and the attitude to go with it leaves me cold!
JMO ... |
| ArabianGlimmer |
Posted - 09 Jan 2011 : 05:19:50 AM
This has been a wonderful thread and I really appreciate the feedback. On a personal level, the only reason I like the concept of a public show is to guide the breed towards better quality. Honestly, if I were showing a horse against other horses that were far better than mine, I would of course, want the prize to go to the horse that deserves it the most.
Anyway, back to Scottsdale, I have come up with a way to approach this. I will be posting some of the public Scottsdale 2011 videos as they come available on Youtube but I will open the discussion up on how Scottsdale fairs as a humane show. I will pose questions on whether or not attendees and observers see something abusive. It's a great topic for discussion and one I would love to learn more about myself.
I love competition when it's fair and humane. Honestly, for a good span of time, I stopped following much of the trends here in the U.S. pertaining to the shows so I feel pretty out of it.
Thanks again. It's been inspiring! |
| Ennik |
Posted - 09 Jan 2011 : 05:09:07 AM
Debs ..... Oh! Crabbet/Denver was in the eighties. At the risk of being controversial, it seems to me America has developed a different showing cultue to ours, much more competitive and pot/money oriented. I haven't been to Scotsdale but if as you feel, there is abuse going on, it's going to go on whether you see/support it or not. They probably don't see it as abuse, just a means to and end which is slightly different to ours. Perhaps the whole thing should be viewed with interest and curiosity as a tourist event where the natives behave differntly to us! Whether or not you'd want to pay good money to do that, of course, is another matter....... just a thought .... Rose Ennik |
| ArabianGlimmer |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 10:31:36 PM
Good stuff. Thanks for the feedback. I'll be thinking about how I want to cover this. |
| lisa rachel |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 10:23:01 PM
That's a better idea Jane! |
| Zenitha |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 8:44:34 PM
Or - don't be afraid to blog about the abuse you see ! |
| lisa rachel |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 7:22:05 PM
I have never been but have been told by people who go regularly....
'Lisa you would hate it.' I strongly suspect that they are right.
I think we should always avoid supporting,in any way at all, anything we consider unethical, that is how change for the better happens. So for what it's worth Arabianglimmer if the posts on here reflect the reality of the show, ( which from youtube clips that I have seen I would say they do) I wouldn't dignify it with your time.
JMO! |
| MinHe |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 4:57:11 PM
Went to Scottsdale once. Wouldn't go again, for reasons mentioned.
Keren |
| debs |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 07:42:57 AM
"I'm English! Could you let him down please!" So he did and I was able to take my picture of a normally standing horse.
Perfect!
How long ago was that Rose? |
| Ennik |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 07:06:41 AM
America is America I'm afraid! I remember going to the first Crabbet Convention in Denver and, when an I levelled up to take a picture of a horse the owner immediately struck him into an exagerated show pose. Pausing, I turned to him and said: "I'm English! Could you let him down please!" So he did and I was able to take my picture of a normally standing horse. If a horse can't be assessed without artifical aids, what's the point! Rose Ennik |
| Patriot |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 05:02:55 AM
Lyndilou - Totally agree, things seems to go to a whole new level of stupidity over here |
| ArabianGlimmer |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 02:45:25 AM
I have another question for those who don't like Scottsdale. As a blogger, do you think I should cover this show or ignore it?
Also, what is "traditional" showing? I can tell you I much prefer the European shows over the U.S. shows in general (save for our Regional shows, they're pretty fun.)
Do you think Scottsdale is just too fake/greedy? I'd love to learn from you all. :) |
