| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Karon |
Posted - 01 Aug 2010 : 11:12:12 AM
I am sorry to say that, having gone to the AHS show at Malvern for the first time for 6+ years this year, I'm most disappointed and I doubt if me and my OH will be going again.
Not disappointed in the horses - they are (as always) heart stoppingly beautiful. But what's with the handlers winding them up, the crowd shouting,screaming, whistling, banging the side of the arena and waving things around in the collecting ring? I was standing beside a group of people who were as appalled as me and my OH at this behaviour - it's the sort of thing you'd expect to see at a football match, not the Arab show (maybe the supporters should take a hint from rugby crowds instead....).
What really got me was, many of the horses were doing a fantastic trot then the crowd would start and the horse would break into a canter, shoot off and be hauled round again - not pretty, not necessary and not doing anything to show off the horses' action. The crowd were particularly noisy with one particular handler and I'm afraid at one point I did make a loud comment, not particularly polite, at one person (who completely ignored me anyway) and had to walk out.
It's so frustrating - out in the real world I have worked hard, locally, to get Arabs a better name and generally I get comments about how well behaved, quiet, well trained etc mine are (if you ignore the behaviour of one of mine at a recent clinic, that is.....!) but then those comments are often followed by the usual "but that's unusual in Arabs, isn't it?". And, anyone making such a comment seeing the way horses were wound up at the Arab show would be justified in thinking this.
We still need to continue promoting the Arab as a riding horse, not just a pretty horse that ponces around on the end of a piece of string - no that's not how I see them myself, I have been to the Arab show many times and used to love seeing them being shown but I think the reputation of the Arab is being done a lot of harm.
Needless to say I'm still going to stay involved with Arabs, I couldn't imagine having anything other than Arabs and I'll continue to do things locally with mine to show off just how good they are.
Incidentally, the ridden horses that I saw were just stunning, and seeing the overall ridden champion literally brought tears to my eyes - even now just remembering him and his rider (who looked ecstatic!). There were some truly beautiful horses in the ridden classes and I'd have been happy to take any one of them home. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Maureen Bint |
Posted - 19 Aug 2010 : 10:16:55 PM
Hi Karen,
I have just seen your post and yes you are right, it is some what distressing for the horses.
I can also help you out with some of the lovely piccies that you have taken.
In the vetran class there was a young person who is my daughter, handling my stallion, she is wearing a black suit showing a grey stallion,  he came 4th.
His name is Distinkt, he is by Rumak and out of Distancia.
Thank you for sharing these piccies, they are great.
Cheers Maureen Bint |
| Roseanne |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 7:47:29 PM
That's a really difficult question Angel - where does anyone compromise? You're right, it's hard to see the world going back to the old English, sedate, rarified showing of Arabs inhand.
We all know that most people adore their Arabs and treat them like house pets. But I have seen a few handlers (European and US to be specific) who I think should be banned from handling horses, their poor charges are quite obviously terrified of them.
It's a debate that is going to run and run I suspect. I only hope we can stem the prejudice in the wider horse world against the Arab. The prejudice - pure hatred by some - was always there a bit (because they're strong, pretty, ultra elegant, highly intelligent and not dull blobs) but it's in danger of getting worse. Where we live in deep hunting country, people aren't inclined towards Arabs at all and will believe anything horrible anyone says. |
| angel2002 |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 7:52:52 PM
I do see what you are trying to say Roseanne, I have seen some very scared horses, must admit they are usually the European horses and no, I do not like seeing it. But because I do not have a problem with rattling bottles or bags, clapping and whooping does that make me a cruel person who should never own a horse again?
The finger is being pointed by some at everyone who has ever shown their arab inhand as being wicked and abusive. This IS NOT the case.
Times change and things move on, the 'old school' way of showing Arabs has gone and is not about to be reinstated by the UK Arab fraternity as the only way to show inhand.
So my question is where do we all compromise?
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| Roseanne |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 6:23:13 PM
Angel you're quite right. Some things don't scare Arabs any more than police horses.
Some clearly are scared though, or they wouldn't go to such ludicrous lengths to frighten them in the collecting rings at big shows.
No one could accuse me of putting people off Arabs. I have been extolling their virtues as sane, sensible ridden horses for many years. I was merely telling Abby that the police use all sorts of tactics to desensitise horses that have to be ridden through crowds of football fans or rioters safely, no matter what happens.
It seems some people are just too angry that people object to the techniques people use to get their Arabs to perform a 20 20 20 trot!! |
| kimzi |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 3:20:12 PM
Essex police had an open day at their stables in writtle a couple of years ago, it was very interesting, the difference being that if one of their horses reacted the same way to a plastic bag or rattle as an in hand arab it would be deemed useless (can't go steaming over the top of the public after all ). |
| angel2002 |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 2:54:56 PM
Roseanne, please stop putting all arabs under the same banner with regards what scares them!!
Mine ignore umbrellas, take no notice of plastic bags or buckets being dragged over concrete, they get bored very quickly after the 1st rattle of a bottle, ignore fireworks and F16 fighter jets overhead for that matter...I could go on but won't 
You are making it sound that ALL Arabs are ready to run at the slightest noise and that is just not true, it's a wonder anyone would want to own one let alone ride one after your last comment...
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| basbob |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 12:01:17 AM
Lou, all the horses you produce are fantastic. I fell in love with Finalai(?) a few years back and was impressed to see you ride Adawy in a snaffle at Towerlands and let him stretch down as a novice should. Noise is, in my opinion, OK!!! |
| Roseanne |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 11:13:15 PM
That's the whole point Abby, that's just how police horses are trained. They take them through lines of people with whistles, balloons, plastic bags, squeaky things - you name it. They're things that spook horses so they have to get the cold-blooded half-carthorse police horses used to it.
The point is that with an intelligent, alert, ultra sensitive Arab, the same things will worry, scare and spook him and make him go into 'red-alert' mood with tail up, huge paces, wide eyes, head up and hollow back ready for escape.
Some people just feel this is not a natural or kindly way to show off a horse.
But it's done in the Arab world and it's become fairly 'usual' - it's personal taste. |
| LOU |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 9:39:37 PM
Hi that is my other boy Fferzan he does both often, was Bronze Champion at HOCON this year and out under saddle the next weekend, he will do both in hand at the UKIAHS at Towerlands this year in the same day and I will eat my mums socks if he isnt a good boy in the ridden two hours later.
Fferzan is one of the most highly strung arabians you will ever meet, but a plastic bag or a scream, clap, bang or shout does not flap him, he would freak if im late to feed or a mouse in his stable
Darcy is only 3 and has a temp to die for and again is simply un-flapable, he wore his garland with pride and the children all had a sit on him when he got back to the stable after becoming British National champion not atal stressed by the hype of the main ring.
Darcy will be out under saddle when he is old enough and im sure he will take to this like a duck to water, as mine all do, I enjoy inhand alot but I have geldings and they have to do job they have never let me down.
Thankyou for reply
Lou. x.x |
| Scarlet Arabian |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 9:36:46 PM
so when police horses are trained for crowd control bags are not waved? or drums are not banged? or loads of noise is not made?, but surely they have to be ridden to do their job!!!!
i agree that caution should prevail in the collecting ring,small space loads of horses, but like many have said cheering and clapping is part of many breed shows and most horses rise to the noise, strutting there stuff.
shame that the article in the H&H could not be more of a show case instead of a put down for the arabian breed AGIAN 
Abby |
| amyribbon |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 9:29:20 PM
Hi Louisa!
I am not sure if it was on this thread or somewhere else but it was said that he had done it in hand and also in ridden. What a horse!!!!
Amy!!! |
| tiny |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 9:07:18 PM
For some insane reason i keep coming on here and reading the same comments that are written time and time again after every major show and they seem to be always written by the few people....get off your soap boxes and get a life!!!
All my horses that entered the inhand ring at Malvern did so with someone bagging them and I was rinside making plenty of noise!! and my young stallion is so obviously so affected by this that my 2 and a half year old child was in his stable after the class helping wipe him off and and giving him hugs....and my senior stallion that has had such a traumatising time over the years with his trainer and has been so badly effected by the plasic bags that have been waved when he enters the ring not only here in the UK but at many of the major European shows that his placing in novice stallions must have been a fluke!!
Waving a few bags and making some noise has done any of my boys any harm in fact they seem to rather enjoy it and thrive on the atmosphere of the larger shows. Do they need a bag waved or outside help NO they move the same regardless but do they enjoy it YES whether it be at home having play time in the paddocks or at a show which to them is playtime just with an audience!!
There are so many fabulous horses out there that hav enjoyed very successfull in hand careers and are still champions under saddle and these horses are the real ambassadors of the breed showing that the arabian is quite literally unflappable. A good tempered horse can do anything regardless of a few over enthusiastic people and a carrier bag!!
Get over it people it's the few ill informed do gooders that bring the breed into disrepute by going on these forums spouting the same old rubbish year in year out "An enthusiastic horse playing to a crowd and enjoying it's moment in the spotlight is not a bad horse with or without a carrier bag" |
| LOU |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 6:47:58 PM
amyribbon,
I would just like to know why Darcy was referred to in your post?
Has his name been mentioned?
Louisa |
| Zenitha |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 2:32:21 PM
Amy - I'm not sure how i offended you, but I certainly didn't mean to  I assumed you would be sitting in the stands, or ringside as the majority of people are ? Am I wrong ?
My comment was meant to show that had you been by the entrance to the main ring, you would have seen some of the things going on, and presumably would have been dismayed by what you saw . Most people who haven't been to an Arab show before are, hence the eternal debate !
I don't think the comments on here are nasty (barring the odd one or two  ), this is just a much debated subject within the Arabian community
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| NatH |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 11:28:32 AM
Amyribbon ~ please don't let comments of this forum 'put you off'
Generally the people here are lovely and extremely helpful.
With forums you will always get a difference of opinions, sadly not everyone is great at getting their point of view across without sounding harsh.
Remember we all love Arabian horses but all feel differently about this original topic. I love our National Show but I am 'old school' and prefer quieter praise at ringside for our lovely horses. This is only my opinion and its not shared by all. I have to appreciate and accept this but it doesn't stop me from voicing my opinion and concerns when it happens.
Please use this forum to meet new friends and put your thoughts across and don't feel 'put off' by others. |
| amyribbon |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 10:58:18 AM
Angel and Lottie - thank you, heartily, for making me feel so welcome.
I don't want to sounds horrible, but Jane, you do not know where I stood! As I say, this was my first show and I loved what I saw. But the nastiness on here is - quite frankly - off putting. Poor Jingo with her comments about Basra. Darcy and Basra sound like wonderful horses and the kind that I want to own and eventually breed.
Amy! |
| Roseanne |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 10:12:35 AM
There is universal acceptance that you need a sedate atmosphere for ridden work. For example at HOYS, people deliberately subdue their applause so's not to freak the ridden horses as their placings are announced.
You'd need brain-dead horse, or a police horse (usually with a vast amount of cold-blood in it) to have it undisturbed by the kind of stimulation in-hand horses get sometimes.
As people have said, this is a discussion that will go round and round the arguments. What is clear though, is that much of the most prominent and influential inhand showing fraternity (the majority of Arab showing?) has accepted the razmatazz as necessary/desirable; it's 'de rigeur' on the continent and in the US, so it's not likely to be ended here in the UK. |
| basbob |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 9:55:48 PM
It's the national show - loads of remarks, good and bad. Noise is, for me, a part of riding my horse and not knowing what's coming around the corner. I have a boy that has been shown a lot as a baby and is fantastic in "difficult" situations. But what saddens me is that I can't seem to find the complete results for the UK National show! |
| Annette |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 9:14:00 PM
Well said Jane  |
| Zenitha |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 8:33:01 PM
Lottiherts - I agree the last thing we want to do is put people off our beloved Arabians
However, it is EXACTLY the sort of behaviour being discussed on this thread which has given our breed such a bad reputation with the rest of the horse world in the first place People are not being put off the Arab by what we are saying, rather what we are DOING I personally think it is VERY wrong to pretend that these things don't go on !
It is no good brushing it under the carpet and pretending it doesn't exist - it does, and until something is done about it, we will still be seen as a laughing stock, with our 'poodles on a string'. Not an image any of us want to cultivate, but unfortunately this is how we and our horses are seen by many
If Amyribbon had seen the antics going on in the collecting ring next to the entrance to the main ring, her view of the show may well have been different  .
At the end of the day, we all want to have a society to be proud of, which means ironing out these issues,(NOT being scared to discuss them - be it on a forum or elsewhere, surely that is what forums are for ?- Provided of course everyone remains civilised )If the issues are not addressed, these discussions will continue for eternity, and the Arab's reputation will never improve .
At the end of the day -this is about rules, and rules being broken. The AHS need to decide whether they are truly behind the rules regarding outside interference and intimidation of the horse. If they are, then they need to enforce them, everywhere, and without exception, or else throw the rules out and then nobody can complain anymore about rules being broken. Simple.(looks that way to me anyway ) |
| kimzi |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 6:40:06 PM
I wish i could agree that some horses are too valuable to be ridden, i'm not going to hide behind a wall and i know it is off original topic but i have seen many big winning youngstock with such crappy hind leg conformation that you would'nt dream of asking them to do real work - yes it would devalue them tremendously when they get horrific injuries and also a barrel so slim that only midgets would look apprpriate sitting on them (imagine rolling poles off showjumps with your own feet), but someone somewhere deemed them to be equine perfection . At the end of the day we all have what we like, just because someone else may not appreciate it we shouldnt get upset. Personally we have had our day so to speak with showing and our going back to our roots and will just keep a couple of our arabs as pets, i like the fact that timing clocks rareley lie and no matter how good my lovelies are they can't get me back to where i wish to be. |
| LOU |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 6:27:56 PM
My gelding Fferzan competes in both the inhand and ridden without a care in the world to be honest the best he has ever gone is when he does the inhand in the morning at the UKIAHS and the ridden in the afternoon as he is doing this year, he has been Reserve BNC in hand on the Friday and won the HOYS ridden on the Saturday, but being fair he has been shown inhand since a yearling, so maybe he is a little deaf at the age of 11
Lou |
| lottieherts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 2:54:50 PM
Amyribbon - I am sorry your positive experience of Malvern has been made not so positive now after reading some of these posts. Please do not be put off the breed by this.
We should be encouraging new people to become owners of Arabians - not putting them off!
We moan about low prices being achieved and yet don't help ourselves by sniping at the society and each other (again) on a forum and giving onlookers (and future owners) a bad opinion of the Arab fraternity.
I cannot comment on things I do not see however I do feel strongly that matters should always be addressed to the society in person (by phone/email/letter) rather than on a forum.
Forums are a great medium to openly discuss many things, however I think we should be careful what we write when someone posts they are being put off owning an Arab because of what we are saying.
It does no good for the breed or for the name of those who own Arabians.
I know we are a passionate bunch, but I do think we need to check our own reins sometimes.
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| Aremeriel |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 2:28:42 PM
Originally posted by Roseanne
Aremeriel lots of in hand Arabians are considered too good to be ridden. I think they mean too valuable though...
Yes, I'm aware of that. I just have a problem coming to terms with said quote coming from one of the in-hand judges at Malvern this year. Which is also why my first reaction was to wonder which judge this was. |
| Roseanne |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 2:23:05 PM
Aremeriel lots of in hand Arabians are considered too good to be ridden. I think they mean too valuable though...
I was once showed an absolutely top, extremely expensive stallion (lovely boy!) and couldn't help saying: "He is just desperate to be ridden" as he would have been a complete WOW, and the owner chided me (very friendly) and told me not to be rediculous, he was FAR too valuable to be ridden.
If he were mine I'd have ridden him, just to prove what perfection he might have been, but that wasn't his destiny. It was earning a lot of money at stud, and winning lots of very prestigious prizes!! |
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