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T O P I C R E V I E W
Pelle
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 3:35:22 PM I was looking in an old book about polo and found a very interesting article about the famous *Four Ashton brothers* from Australia that in 1930 hired a small boat that sailed from Sydney to Hull with 24 poloponies and played all season in England and then sold the ponies to pay for the trip. It says in the article that all the ponies traced back to the very celebrated english polopony stallion Bashom (The Fox) 213. Does anyone have the early NPS registers with the breeding of this stallion that had offspring in Australia?
17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Rozy Rider
Posted - 09 Nov 2013 : 10:46:04 PM BLUE FIRE was also on safari hunting with Bashom ( the Fox) in the 1900's.. My guess is that it was another of the Ashton's/ or related Arab/Barb horses of that time.
Rozy Rider
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 4:22:26 PM Hi Mystic, These are the two stallions associaed with The Ashton brothers. Both Bashom the Fox( Arab imp) & Gillie Flower (TB) were with Mrs Ings at Moyne Park Essex, England. Ashgill was foaled in 1910 and we know Gillie Flower was with Mrs Ings in 1909. Anything interesting you find in the Australian Stud books we'd love to see/hear about. Dormouse has also listed above some of the other horses reported to be on the trip. I have now managed to find the pedigree for the TB Gillie Flower, so will update allbreeds. So would be very interested to hear if your 1 -8 stud books contain anything linking with these or the Ashton horses. In NPS.Vol.XIII,p.23, Gillie Flower- 290 s.Scotland. (with space), Bay.Black points. 14.2h.
Gibbergunyah a TB has lots of off sprigs listed on all breeds, many out of Australian Stock mares. Cheers Sue
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 10:58:03 AM Hi Mystics, Hope your not in the middle of the Australian floods, we heard that Peter Toft, a well known endurance rider, had lost all his horses swept away by the big wave, any news on anything in that region would be of interest. The last I read they had accounted for about 40 horses all dead, drowned.We met Peter at the big Welsh Ride-Red Dragon a few years back with his Spot, Murphy. But its gone very quiet here in the news.
Thanks for the Basham contact, I read quite a bit about the Ashton's, I understand when they left GB after playing polo in England, that went to the USA, played polo there and sold all 24 ponies to finance the trip home, I think they made quite a bit of money from the US trip and sale of the ponies, enough to buy themselves a new Ranch and set up another Polo Station. I understand the family is still there now/today...playing polo too....
One of the English Officers did head out to Australia, but it was not the officer who rode Basham in the big battle at Omdurman in 1897, where Basham was wounded and his officer rider got the Victoria Cross.
Its true we have failed miserable to find many of Basham's stock and any of the rest of the 24 polo ponies that original left AUs. heading to England, or their sire's dams or relations....turning the pages back now to pre 1900. So if you can add anything from your Austrailian Stud books, right up to the mid 1930's - 1940's too, we'd love to hear from you and would all be very interested...If I can add any to the all breeds and up date the info.. as ness, I'd be pleased too. Keep us posted, it's good to hear from you. and any pics you come across to. We are sharing info here as many of the old stud books are out of print and not available, some of us have a few about and we are exchanging info to get the full picture of the breeding etc.etc.... Cheers Sue
Mysticsequin1
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 07:11:48 AM I forgot to add in previous post, in USA farms are known as ranches in Australia they are known as farms or properties or stations ( this is predominantly in the larger ones held in the interior of Australia mostly Northern Territory, South Australia, Queensland, New South Wales or Western Australia. Ann
Mysticsequin1
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 07:01:56 AM Hi I was just looking through this forum & the info about the Ashton brothers was interesting from an Australian point of view, they were very well known in the Polo scene in Australia really fantastic horsemen. Sir Samuel Horden was a very well known breeder of top quality ponies quite a few were foundation stock for the Australian Pony studbook if my memory serves me I think he also had Hacknies, I have the Australian Pony Studbooks vol 1 - 8 which list quite a few of his ponies. Ann
Rozy Rider
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 5:11:02 PM Found three now that are by the TB Gillie Flower.
Cheers Sue
Rozy Rider
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 1:07:10 PM Thank you Lynda, we'll be able to work more together now. Is it possible to leave the NPS Numbers for these you've found in the NPS. I have not got them listed, just the mare's off springs. Thanks.
Here is 15564 BAISER - Vol.XVIII, dam of 4421 BAY - Vol.XVIII., sired by KANO - 1085,(who's by TRENTON.( who will interest Pelle, as there is Austrailian blood in this imported TB's line..)
Will add and up date the info you've left for me.. I think I've found another one too, by the Fox. (still got lots to look at in XIII, 1913 -14.)
now found info on the following snippet, left by Dormouse, and I still can't get my browser working on the snippets, so keep at it Dormouse...your doing great....'view from the Livestock Journal Almanac 1909. "Ives, Hon. Mrs., Moyns, Birdbrook, Essex. Polo & Riding Pony Stallions: Thoroughbred Gillie flower; and Trention' as above in Doremouse info.
I agree with Dormouse, looks like both Trention (a TB Import) and Gilly Flower were in the early NPS. Got one or two to add..2829 ASHGILL NPS.sired by GILLIE FLOWER 290 NPS. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ashgill
Miss Glitter have failed so far to get any breeding confirmed for her, she is up for sale on Henry Bret Polo site.
Calisto, I think the 'other' Bashom is also linked to this line..will add the stuff later. All 26 ponies went to the USA to play for the season and all the horses were sold to pay for the trip..Ashtons made a bomb from the sale and returned to Aust. with loads of money. I think they had a good summer playing polo in the US, they bought a ranch with the money they made on the sale of the ponies in the US, returned home to Australia rich men. Keep at it folks... Thanks again Sue
Weirton... I know who you are!!!!! and have left you another PM.( do you know who Sweep was too...) Sue
Lynda
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 11:40:25 AM I've found another Babette in the supplement of Vol 1X - 1905-6. Details as follows:
Babette Foaled February 14th 1905. Dark chestnut, small blaze, two white hind feet and socks.
Sire: Bashom (The Fox)213 Dark chestnut 14.1h.h. Dam: Betzey Balck hunter mare 15.1h.h.
Owner/Breeder: Hon Mrs Ives, Moyns Park, Halstead, Essex
Prizes: 1905 Reserve (hunter foals) Halstead
1906 4th Yearling Pol pony fillies at the Polo and Riding Pony society, London.
In the same volume is Baiser Chestnut mare, white off-hind coronet. Foaled May 7th 1902. Height 14h.h. measured in September 1906.
Sire: Lord Polo (135) chestnut 13.2h.h. Dam: (688) Bai, bay 13.2h.h.
Rozy Rider
Posted - 07 Nov 2010 : 01:44:32 AM Thanks Lynda, Any chance you might be able to check for these two in the 1905 -6 NPS, please and any off springs..
Tresham Gilbert purchased both Babette 1905 & Babe 1906, both fillies who were by BASHOM and entered in the NPS supp for 1906 & 1908), both out of BAI bred to Basham. They might just miss that Vol. IX. Both were sold on to Play Polo. Thanks Sue
Lynda
Posted - 06 Nov 2010 : 12:11:25 PM Looking through the NPS stud book Vol XV, I have found a mare who is in this book with details as follows:
3160 JUNE ROSE 1912. Bay, blaze, off hind sock. Height 14.2 in February 1917. Owned by Richard D. Matthey, The Croft, Hartley Wintney, Hants.
Breeder: Major J.A. Daniell, East Cavalry Barracks, Aldershot.
Sire: Bashom (The Fox) 213 dark chestnut 14.1 Dam: 1605 Minnehaha bay 13.2 by Rosewater 37 bay 14.2 G.Dam: 1150 Babble grey 13.3 by Rosewater 37 bay 14.2 G.G.Dam: 514 Gossip grey 14h.h.
Rozy Rider
Posted - 29 Oct 2010 : 11:56:13 PM Just a thought, Captain W Smythe (who won the Victoria Cross on Bashom the Fox) Emingrated to Australia in 1925, he was a Polo Man and may have taken horses with him that were related to Bashom, Bashom came to GB in 1901, Capt Smith went to Australia in 1925.The four Ashton brothers were born at the turn of the century and started palying polo in the 1920ies....
Ashtons Polo Ponies came with them from Australia( did they originate fron the Indian connection??) to England in 1930. Wonder how they might have been related to Bashom..???
Thanks Dormouse for this info. Cheers Sue Pelle any other offsprings known for Bashom.??? Austrailian based.. 1925 - 1930 ???? WHAT old book were you looking at ????????
There quite a lot written about the Ashion family & polo ponies..
1930 England Tour The challenge of the "Mother Country" beckoned them to get their 26 polo ponies organised and to plan an ambitious trip to England. This involved a three month boat trip, which would require installing loose horse boxes on the ships deck and a small round sand yard in which to exercise and train their ponies.
The trip was challenging with high seas and at one point they were almost shipwrecked in a severe storm in the Mediterranean. One horse became free and was almost lost over board before they managed to save it. The British press got wind of the Ashtons' ambitious endeavor before they left Sydney. The British Press categorically stated:
1.The Ashtons would never arrive in Britain. 2.The Ashtons would never play a game of polo in Britain. 3.They would certainly never win a game.
The 4 Ashtons Brothers even supplied horses to the British Cavalery in India between 1920 - 1930. A retired British Artillery Officer had introduced the game of polo to the four brother, they rode 56 miles on a Friday to play Polo each weekend and then rode them home again.
After visiting England and playing here with their 26 polo ponies, they were invited to play polo in the USA, after that visit they sold all 26 ponies in the USA and made a fortune. When they returned home they were local hero's. used the money to buy another grass ranch.The current polo pony breeding programme on Millamolong is a lifelong passion for James and his family. Many of the pony blood lines descend from the original polo ponies which travelled to England in 1930. Millamolong still breeds strong, calm and durable ponies to play fast and furious polo at all levels.
Over the past few years James Ashton was the first in the Southern Hemisphere to breed a sex sorted foal for polo. Recently yet another Millamolong polo pony 'Miss Glitter' won Best Polo Pony at the Cartier International in England, 2004. The Ashtons still play polo around the globe having recently played and toured in the West Indies.
Miss Glitter....Get a mention on the Henry Bret Polo site(voted the best looking man in polo). In fact it looks as if she was listed as For Sale... Australian mare from the well-known Ashton breed. She has played all the high goal with Henry since arriving in England in 2004. She has played the Cartier Internationalfour times and won the best playing pony award on two occasions.
It also says that the original Polo Ponies all trace back to the English Import.....????????? I guess it might be Bashom the Fox... All the horses were Hurlingham registerd..so someone with the Hurlingham register can confirm this....and hopfully the breeding.
Dormouse mentions a horse from the 1960's.. if we can find the breeding for this horse it may be possible to trace back...
I have the 1922, 1934, 1937 National Pony Stud books..will now see if anything rings bells...
These four brothers and their ranch in New South Wales is famous for Polo and is active today..
Hurling ham information needed.. British Officer information needs confirming ?? is it the same chap Captain W Smyth that won the Victoria Cross at the battle of Om riding Bashom the Fox..did he use this stallion when he was in India and did the Ashtons get some offsprings ?????????.
It also says that the family visited England in 2004 and with Miss Glitter, who won and was sold to Henry Brett and is now breeding in England.
Just adding that Tresham Gilbert purchased both Babette 1905 & Babe 1906, both fillies who were by BASHOM and entered in the NPS supp for 1906 & 1908).BAI bred to Basham. Kano(TB by Trenton IMP)sired 4421 BAYS who was bred by Mrs Ives at Moyns park.Some Aust blood in the TB line. Also look at Gibbergunyah.
Battle of Omdurman - 2nd September 1898. Lots written about this battle, Bashom the Fox was there and wounded and galloped 50 miles with dispatches. he survived the day, his officer won a Victoria Cross and brought him back to England a couple of years later.(Imported from Egypt in August 1901 by Captain W Smyth VC of the Queen's Bays.Sir Warington Wilkinson Smyth and grandson of Admiral W. H. Smyth. He was awarded the Victoria Cross while serving with the 2nd Dragoon Guards (Queen's Bays) at Khartoum in 1898. He settled in Australia in 1925.(ref.Family History) Well Done for him..
Winston Churchill was also there, lead the charge of the Lancers. Three or four Victoria Crosses were won. The 21st lancers lost 5 officers and 65 men with 120 horses lost. Few Iistration to see on the link, including Churchill on his grey charger. Hope Bashom had a long happy life in Moyns Park after been a war horse.....(giraffe) who ends his days in a green field in Essex. We've found so far, 8 offsprings bred in England... Read More:-
also see:- A Book of the Wilderness and Jungle By F G Aflalo an accouny of days he was hunting page 200 -203.
Sue.
dormouse
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 11:35:47 AM Another bit of information for you. I quote from 'Out of the Desert' by Peter Upton.
"Bashom, 'The Fox', who is registered in Volume VII of the Society's stud books was a dark chestnut bred by Sheykh Ibn Alre Rashid of the Roala. The horse was wounded at Omdurman and galloped 50 miles one afternoon with dispatches. Imported from Egypt in August 1901 by Captain W Smythe VC of the Queen's Bays: a first-rate polo pony.'
The stud book referred to is the Polo Pony Stud Book.
Omdurman is in central Sudan and today is suburb of Khartoum. There is a Battle of Omdurman between the British General Herbert Kitchener who defeated the army of Abdullah al-Taashi (a Sudanese General & Ruler) and the date would be appropriate - 2 September 1898.
Suzy
Rozy Rider
Posted - 02 Sep 2010 : 10:14:37 PM A few interesting stallions in this horses pedigree, well used in GB, and with links to the Smoke, Cigar and Corona Corona and Wolf's Crag and Carbine.Here the Austrailian's horse. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gibbergunyah
Ref.Bashom the Fox 213. Found 7 off springs of Bashom the Fox, all bred at Moyns Park and all out of the same Irish Hunter mare BETZEY III b. 1889 (2403 NPS.Vol XIII.p.26 - 1912, have put them on Allbreeds, will be a few days before they show..will leave the link then. Tresham Gilbert bought two of the fillies, so should be able to trace any third generation stock.
Sue
Rozy Rider
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 10:17:30 PM Better than telly if you ask me.. Will check the early Arabian imports... and see what I can find. In the succssful Registered Sire, Total number of awards 1900 -1924. Registered as: Bashom the Fox 213, Total of six awards for progeny.NPS. vol. XVIII.p.371(1922-1924).
Here is the 1940 sire link, a pic and list of some of his off springs. (go to the feft drop down and click progeny)
Back to the Aussy and the boat load of polo ponies...they would have played and you mind be able to turn them up..the chap who deals with archived records at Hurlington is on holiday at the mo, but will be back in September. Pelle's Mother might tell you where these were planning to play. and maybe jusy maybe you'll be able to google them and find moooooore.........
Good Stuff folks...keep at it... Cheers Sue
Callisto
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 7:06:13 PM Certainly not the one you are looking for, but there is another Bashom, a bay stallion foaled 1949, by Champurrado x Baranova, he was exported to the USA in 1960.
dormouse
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 6:50:01 PM Delving about on the internet I have found a Bashom that might be correct.
Available at archive.org is the book The Arab: the horse of the future, by The Hon Sir James Penn Boucaut KCMG published in 1905. Within this Mrs Ives of Moyns Park has an Arab stallion called Bashom. I quote "....The writer adds that there are a few thoroughbred horses to be found which combine the required qualities in perfection, and that it is noteworthy that the majority of those are smaller than the average blood horse, and that amongst those at Moyns Park which have those required qualities was Bashom, an Arab of the highest caste, bred in Arabia by Ibn-Al-Raschid, Sheikh of the northern branch of the Rohilla tribe, thus showing that in using the word 'thoroughbred' Arabs are included...."
Interestingly the front page of the book lists Sir James Boucaut as Senior Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of South Australia and heretofore three times Prime Minister of that State. Also the preface is by Sir Walter Gilbey Bt.
Also on the internet there is a part view of the book 'A book of the Wilderness and Jungle' by F G Aflalo. This contains various mentions of a high caste Arab called Bashom who it appears is the mount for hunting expeditions in Africa (well mentions giraffe) who ends his days in a green field in Essex.
Also in the Bath & West and Southern Counties Journal of 1907 the Hon Mrs Ives, Moyns Park, Halstead, Essex exhibited the following. Fox Bay, dark chestnut, foaled 9th June 1903; s Bashom (The Fox) (213 P.P.S.B.), d Bai (688 P.P.S.B.).
Found the following in the snippet view from the Livestock Journal Almanac 1909. "Ives, Hon. Mrs., Moyns, Birdbrook, Essex. Polo & Riding Pony Stallions: Thoroughbred Gillieflower; Arab, Bashom; Polo-bred Chateau & Foxby. Young stock, made & racing ponies for sale. Excellent accommodation for mares."
Another sire who's stock came over with the Ashton's was Gibbergunyah. A TB or TB type (sorry can't find decent info in web) born in 1922 bred by Mr J H Doyle at Warrandeen Station, nr Talwood, Queensland.
There is also reference on the web that Sir Samuel Hordern provided stock for the Ashton brothers first overseas tour. Sir Samuel was also apparently a keen amateur polo play with his own team The Wanderers.
Trenton (Import)and sire of KANO.