| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 12:32:10 PM
In reference to the dam line of Cigarette..anyone found this Sigoriette any where yet..be around 1900 - 1920's ish.
Also mentioned as the dam line for Cigarette in a German Mag on Bwlch Valentino..anyone got a copy..
Anyone with the GSB's please can you help.
Thank You.
Cheers Sue |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 1:12:05 PM
Melynda, Thanks for the pic..will add it to my collection.. I think were on the wrong track with this mare Cigarette, I think the reference in the German mag was just there word for the same name(Cigarette). I also think that the folks that owned Cigarette and bred Goldflake had lots of good horses and were showing at the time Goldflake was born in 1927. They also had at least one TB polo pony stallion and he was well used around that time...about 35 foals born..although I'm having difficulty finding them all and most of the folks from those days have now gone.
When Goldflake was registered (as Bwlch Goldflake) quite a few years had passed after her birth in 1927, another anomaly that needs clearing up. Maybe someone could look at the stud book and tell us when Goldflake was entered ?????.(I understand now that Cigarette was unregistered).
We've got the girls in Sth. Wales out scouting for the old racing results..so fingers crossed they turn something up..
I wish I'd got some of the very old NPS & PBA stud books to check out my theory and recent findings...
Cheers & Thanks Sue |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 8:57:26 PM
Thank you Peterina, for the info and article, I found it very interesting and will follow the links and breeding of the other ponies in this review. I'm leaving you the link (so far) for Bwlch Valentino, as you will see there is still a few gaps to be completed.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bwlch+valentino
Although, I dont think Belsire was the son of Gold Flake, Belsire is a Thoroughbred and his nreeding and line is confirmed and the mare Alicia was Thoroughbred and not Arab, as I said before, as I understand it.
Thanks again.
Sue |
| Peterina |
Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 4:03:44 PM
THis is the link to the article: (in German): http://www.reitpony-zitna.com/.de/html/body_bwlch_valentino.html
This part is probably most of interest:
Ein Blick auf Bwlch Valentino´s Pedigree erstaunt und begeistert gleichermassen: Sein Vater war der Polo Pony Hengst Valentine. Valentine stammte selbst von Malice einem im Argentinischen Zuchtbuch registierten Maladante-Sohn. Eine Linie die über Le Sancy auf Neopolis (G.S.B.) zurückgeht.
Der Anpaarung von Thoroughbred-Polo Pony Blut wird die verstärkte Vererbung von Leichtrittigkeit und raumgreifender,flüssiger Bewegungsaktion nachgesagt. Malice´s Mutter war die Stute Alicia, die wiederum aus der Anpaarung des Polo Pony Hengstes Belsire mit einer Araberstute stammt. Belsire ist ein Sohn der Stute Bwlch Goldflake die selbst in ihrer Abstammung mehrfach Vollblut,Arabisches Vollblut und Welsh führt. Goldflakes Großvater (Mutterlinie) war der in Rennen für Ponys unter 13.2 h.h. erfolgreiche Welsh-Vollblut Mix Sigorietti.
Rough translation:
A look at Bwlch Valentino's pedigree equally surprised and delighted: His father was a polo pony stallion Valentine. Valentine himself was by Malice, a registered Malice Argentine studbook Maladante son. A line that goes back over to Le Sancy and Neopolis (GSB).
The pairing of Thoroughbred polo pony blood is said to have increased transmission of 'Leichtrittigkeit' and far reaching, fluid movement action. Malice's mother was the mare Alicia, which in turn comes from the pairing of the polo pony stallion Belsire with an Arabian mare. Belsire is a son of the mare Bwlch Gold Flake, herself having several times in her pedigree Thoroughbred, Arabian thoroughbreds and Welsh. Gold Flakes grandfather (maternal line) was the, successful in racing for ponies under 13.2, Welsh-Thoroughbred mix 'Sigorietti' |
| Peterina |
Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 3:40:15 PM
Found an old Dutch reference WITH PHOTO! that lists the stallion as having an English Thoroughbred x Arabian/Welsh background (no details).
Grey, owned?breeder: Mrs. N. Pennell, Tweenhills Farm, Hartpury, Glos. Later Mr. and Mrs. I. Vivian Excley,
Klydyadyway, Cusop, Hay-on-Wye, Herefordshire.
Photo and information taken by person around the time.
|
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 30 Dec 2009 : 02:12:01 AM
Hi Melynda, Thanks for the continued support with this one.
I've had a look at Woodbine, by Little Corona and am still wondering.
The only thing that rings bells is, the mares owner did have several stallions about, including a Grey and the mare was covered by Collier, who was owned by T.P. Davies - Cooke from Mold in Nth Wales, the person that may have had both Cigarette & bred Goldleaf.
Cheers Sue
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&h=ELITE54&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l= |
| Melynda |
Posted - 27 Dec 2009 : 7:36:01 PM
I've found a mare called Signorinetta born 1905. She was a 100-1 winner of the Derby Stakes.
There is also a H.S.B. number 6406 mare called Cigarette III by Kosmos Bey (TB), Haven't got the volume she is in but it will be one between 1921-1929. She had a black filly in 1929 called Smoke Smack. |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 10:57:32 PM
Thanks for the info, Melynda and staying on the case.
I've found reference to a 617 Signorino/a,Thoroughbred mare, by St.Simon, Owned by Chev. Ginistrelli.(might be the same mare you have left reference to).
In 1902 foaled b or br Colt by Curio (dead)
1902 bay colt by Best Man. No other info and no other reference to the fags. I did wonder in what part of the country?( Counties) both Curio & Best Man were standing/travelling at stud.
I did find another fags reference named horse in 'Little Corona' and 'Woodbine' and at the moment wondering if these names are the reference printed in the German mag...Also, waiting for the South Wales contact to come back with anything on the pony racing side/line.
The other interesting thing I've spotted is that the Mold Davies family were keeping these type of horses as early as 1922, and in 1924, Mr P T Davies - Cooke, Gwynsaney, Mold, Nth Wales, had the War Office Travelling Premium Stallion Aviator 853 NPS.
In 1928, Mrs P T Davies was still keeping and breeding these ponies. So at the end of the day, was there a link between the late Mr P Davies and Mrs P T Davies Cook, just maybe these are the folks that kept Cigarette and bred Goldflake. Both Mr & Mrs P T Davies - Cooke are recorded as members in the NPS back in 1922 & 1928.
Still got a couple of queries to be cleared up and it will be interesting to find the breeding of Aviator and his progeny and any other record of there horses.
Cheers & Thanks again for the help.
Keep at it folks.
Sue |
| Melynda |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 5:19:54 PM
I think someone mentioned earlier that this mare "Sigoriette" had been a good pony race mare.
I found an entry in Vol. II of the H-B Stud Book (1922) by F. M. Prior that might be of interest if we can tie it in to Cigarette dam of Goldflake.
"Signorina (late Sonica)
A Brown Mare, bred in New Zealand in 1899, and imported from India in 1907, got by imp. Soult (son of St. Simon), out of Dolly by Randwick.
SIGNORINA was the champion pony (14.2 and under) of her day in both New Zealand and India, besides winning many important races when running against horses, including the Great Western Handicap (Bombay) in which she beat three winners of the Viceroy's Cup; also the Cooch Behar Cup (Calcutta), and Western India Stakes (Poona).
Produce;-
1908 B. c. Signor Wolf by Wolf's Crag (son of Barcaldine).
1909 Br. c. Signor Fox by Flying Fox (son of Omer).
1910 Slipped twins to Polymelus (son of Cyllene).
1911 B. c. Lyne's House by Camp Fire II (son of Pearl Diver).
1912 Br. c. Italian by Myram (son of Flying Fox)
1914 Bl. c. Louvetoi by Wolftoi (son of Santoi)
1915 Ch. c. Sippet Charlie by Wolftoi.
Won 8 hurdle races, value £2,304 and 1 (New Centuary)
steeplechase, value £842.
1916 Ch. f. Sippet Cis by Wolftoi.
Produce bred by Mr. Naranji Dwarkadas (of Ladilaw Buildings, Hornby Road, Fort Bombay), up to 1912, and afterwards by Mr. G. G. Ruddle, Bourton, Devizes, Wilts."
Perhaps it should be Signorina and not Sigoriette (which isn't a proper italian word). |
| Melynda |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 3:33:38 PM
Have only found a Cigarette
by Janitor
ex Manilla
She was chestnut and had a chestnut filly by Clarendon or Duke of Portland in 1897. She was barren in 1898 and died.
She also had a chestnut filly, Guinea Gold in 1894 by Death or Glory.
According to Pedigree on line (not always accurate) there is another chestnut filly called Cigarette born 1900,
by Marco
ex Dame Heron by Lowland Chief
She was bred by Mr J. W. Green |
|
|
