| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 03 Nov 2009 : 2:05:21 PM
 SANDIWAY 1895.
Sire of SILVER QUEEN (NPS 1631, Bay 14.1.1/2hh)and 3/4 GSB.
Any Info please.
Thank you
Sue |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 02 Dec 2009 : 01:01:27 AM
I think I've found your White Wings, a Dark Chestnut,14.2hh and registered with NPS 464, sire of 2908 FLU, Chestnut Filly, 14.2hh, both Polo/riding ponies.( find me a pic and I'll put it up).
He also appears in 6692 FANNY FRECKLES NPS.1927.
Cheers Sue |
| Melynda |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 10:30:35 PM
GSB Vol XVIII
There was a bay arabian colt called White Thights born 1894 by Nimr or Goshen ex Columbine II by Kouch ex Aurora
this horse was bred by Mr F.F. Vidal |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 10:16:16 PM
Hi Pelle, Interesting White Wings II.............. Do you think he's related to 'White Flight 189' copied below from Dormouse posting above.
The Radnorshire Polo & Riding Pony Co Ltd, - Head Quarters and Registered Office: “The Farm,” Bleddfa, Llangunllo RSO, Radnorshire, Branch: The Lodge Stud Farm, Keynsham, near Bristol. Polo Stallions: Mountain Ash (Vol 8), Shy Boy 105, Gownboy 114, White Flight 189, White Mask 190, Schoolmaster 233, Headmaster, and Royal Flight, for sale or hire; also Shires, Hackneys and Thoroughbreds. Mares, geldings, and young stock for sale; nearly 100 head to select from. Over 500 1st and champion prizes, cups and medals won by their stock during the last five years – For all further particulars, apply The
Secretary.
Does anyone have more info on ROYAL REVENGE..I think he may be Welsh.
Sue |
| Pelle |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 8:06:42 PM
Mother is looking at all the old photos and is trying to find the one I have seen sometime.....The colt that went to India, was chestnut with a very big blaze,and called WhiteWingsII , by a stallion called White Wings ?? No Bleddfa prefix.
We found a letter dated 1919 where a Captain G. Jewell sent a note and thanked for using WhitewingsII on his mares in Rawalpindi, and will send back the stallion to Poona as soon as all mares are infoal. |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 1:52:18 PM
Or the name, date and breeding of the colt she bought.
Please. Bleddfa was there prefix.
Sue |
| Pelle |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 2:08:32 PM
The Radnorshire Polo & Riding Pony Co Ltd went bankrupt in about 1906 or 7(?)., and all stock, stallions, mares and youngstock was sold at an auctionsale. Stock was sold all over the world. My great grandmother's sister bought a young polobred colt, chestnut with a very big blaze, I have a photo somewhere, and sent in to my great grandmother who then lived in Poona, India. I will ask my mother if she can find any information about the sale or the catalogue./Pelle |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 11:43:38 PM
Great Job, all very interesting and keeping me busy. Still can't get your links to open Suzy. Keep the pictures coming Melynda..
Sill after info on the correct LOWLANDER, sire of LOW WATER.
and still chasing SILVERSPRAY, Grey Mare.
Great Stuff..Thanks a lot.
Sue |
| Melynda |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 11:16:49 PM
I've put a drawing of Shy Lass on Sporthorse. If you double click on the picture it enlarges.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/db.php?i=10573883&time=1258153859 |
| dormouse |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 1:55:58 PM
From the Journal of the Ministry of Agriculture (England), Volume 10, 1904
The Radnorshire Polo & Riding Pony Co Ltd, - Head Quarters and Registered Office: “The Farm,” Bleddfa, Llangunllo RSO, Radnorshire, Branch: The Lodge Stud Farm, Keynsham, near Bristol. Polo Stallions: Mountain Ash (Vol 8), Shy Boy 105, Gownboy 114, White Flight 189, White Mask 190, Schoolmaster 233, Headmaster, and Royal Flight, for sale or hire; also Shires, Hackneys and Thoroughbreds. Mares, geldings, and young stock for sale; nearly 100 head to select from. Over 500 1st and champion prizes, cups and medals won by their stock during the last five years – For all further particulars, apply The Secretary.
From Queensland Agricultural Journal Vol 19 p 186 published 1907
……vanner type for them. The remaining mares are polo ponies, 40 in number, and run with the imported Shy Boy by Rosewater out of Shy Lass, by Albert Victor, a pony bred by Sir Humphrey de Trafford, and a winner of fourteen prizes in England, including two for bending. This is Shy Boy’s first season here, as I only brought him out last November. Hitherto I had used a …….
Unfortunately there was no way I could discover who was writing this article so where Shy Boy was exported is a mystery.
Bath & West & Southern Counties Journal 1906
The Radnorshire Polo & Riding Pony Company Limited, The Farm, Bleddfa, Llangunollo RSO, Radnorshire, Brown, Model Maiden, foaled 1902, bred by W S Bryan, The Crungeod, Llanbister Road, Radnorshire; s Shy Boy (105); s of d Royal Revenge 2nd; in foal.
Found on this website the following horse.
http://www.sukuposti.fi/sukutietokanta.php?Numero=499604
Bashful Boy WSB 184 born 1900
S Shy Boy WSB 55
D Brown Belle WSB 1636 by Royal Revenge
Breeder W S Bryan
I have also found a reference in the RASE Journal of 1903 for what I think will be Bleddfa Telltale but listed with no prefix and what I think are Polo Pony Studbook reference numbers.
Radnorshire Polo & Riding Pony Co Ltd, Telltale, grey, foaled 1896, bred by W J Roberts, Cline Avenue, Church Stretton, s Tyrant 54, d Kocklani 138.
The class this mare is entered in appears to be ‘Mountain or Moorland mares foaled before or in 1899 not exceeding 13 hands’ I can’t be sure as it was a google book snippet and not hard copy of the journal.
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| dormouse |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 5:03:14 PM
Found a few more bits of info as snippets from goggle books on Silvertail and offspring.
In RASE Journal vol 59 of 1898
"426 I (£20) - John Barker, The Grange, Bishops Stortford, for Silvertail, bay roan mare, foaled 1892, bred by J. R. Gilroy, 19 Grosvenor Gardens, S.W., s Low-water."
In RASE Journal of 1911
"Sir John Barker Bt, bay gelding, foaled 1909, Silversmith, s Right For'ard 368, d Silvertail 573 by Low Water.
In RASE Journal 1915
"Plume, Chestnut Filly, by Field Marshal 512, ex Silver Tail 573, by Low Water (Vol 15 p197 GSB). Exhibited by C Howard Taylor."
In Bath & West & Southern Counties Society Journal of 1910
"Sir John Barker Bt, Bay Gelding, Foaled 1908, s Sandiway, d Silvertail by Low Water."
No name for the gelding was given. |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 1:01:36 PM
WOW you've been busy Suzy, Thank you so much, will have to digest all this info now..
Great Effort
Thanks you to all concerned.
Sue |
| dormouse |
Posted - 09 Nov 2009 : 5:41:47 PM
I have found a few references regarding Shy Boy that might help people with their research.
In the Evolution of Polo by Horace A Laffaye & Nigel A Brassard Page 278
"Rosewater by Rosicrucion and Lady Day II, a bay stallion bred by A W Elphrick, the property of Sir Humphrey de Trafford, winner of many races and first prize for polo stallions at Hurlingham, was the founder of a long line of polo ponies. Other superior stallions were Othrae, sired by Raeburn by St Simon, Bold Marc by Marco by Barcaldine, Right For'ard, his sire Mark For'ard by Wrightaway, and Sandiway by Rosewater. Another stallion by Rosewater was Shy Boy, dam Shy Lass by Albert Victor."
Also some snippets from books on google.
From the Journal of the Royal Agricultural Society 1897 (winning 3rd prize)
"545 III (£5) - G N Midwood, Tabley, Knutsford, for Shy Boy 105, brown colt, bred by Sir Humphrey F. de Trafford, Bt; s. Rosewater 37, d. Shy Lass 264 by Albert Victor.
From the Journal of the Royal Agricultural Society 1898 (winning 2nd prize)
"384 II (£10) - G Norris Midwood, The Hut, Tabley, Knutsford, for Shy Lass 264, bay foaled 1889 [foal by Hurlingham 90], breeder unknown, s. Albert Victor."
From Livestock Journal Almanac of 1902
"SHY BOY 105 (Vol III and VI P.P.S.B.), foaled 1895, Sire Rosewater by Rosicrucian, out of Lady Day II, by Sir Mungo; dam Shy Lass by Albert Victor. A dark brown horse, stands about 14.1; shows rare quality, and from his breeding should make a most valuable sire. He has won many First and other prizes, including:- 1900, Reserve London Spring Show, 1st Cheshire County Show, 2nd Altrincham, 2nd Liverpool Polo Club Show, and 1st Adlington. Fee, £3 3s. and 5s the groom."
From Journal by Bath & West & Southern Counties Society 1903 (winning 1st prize)
"I (£5) - The Radnorshire Polo and Riding Pony Company, Limited, The Farm, Bleddfa, Llangunllo, R.S.O., Radnorshire, dark brown stallion, Shy Boy (105), foaled 1895, bred by Sir H. de Trafford, Bart., Hill Crest, Market Harboro; s., Rosewater (37), d., Shy Lass (284); s. of d., Albert Victor."
From the book American Polo by Newell Bent & Devereux Milburn 1929 page 260
which is a copy of or section from "The Science of hitting in polo by Devereaux Milburn from the Spur of August 15, 1925 page 286-299.
"........Welsh pony blood near in their pedigrees, for Shy Lass his dam was by the thoroughbred Albert Victor out of a Welsh pony mare. The danger to-day in breeding polo ponies, as Mr Tresham......."
On page 482 of Modern Polo by Captain E. D. Miller DSO (second edition published 1902) this is a page of the appendix titled Polo Ponies measured & registered at Hurlingham 1899.
"SHY LASS (Mr G N Midwood), b m; small star, faint snip. No. 0417."
I hope the above sends people off in the right direction and not a wild goose chase.
Suzy |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 07 Nov 2009 : 6:17:51 PM
 ROSEWATER 1883, Said to be one of the foundation stallions of our modern day polo pony.
Rosewater (GSB)1883, also sired Moonlight. and appears in the breeding of
DAWN III, 1930, Chestnut mare,14.3hh by TABARIN, NPS 1682,Bay,15hh.(GSB).
out of THE BATCH (Approved Mare Register, p.420) a Bay, 14.3.1/2hh.. and wait for it..By BELSIRE, NPS 655,Bay,14.3hh.(GSB).
MOONLIGHT, Brown, by SHY BOY, born 1895, (ROSEWATER/SHY LASS.)
DAWN's Breeder/Owner was, Capt. & Mrs W.S.Fielding Johnson, Manor Farm Compton Bassett, Calne,Wilts.
Anyone with anything on SHY LASS, Poss GSB. I'd be interested to have info an year of birth/breeding/breeder/owner.
Also found KITTY II - 1878, ony one with a reference to this Welsh Pony and any info, she was only producing things of 12hh.
Also after any reference to
CUDDINGTON, 1886, Dark Chestnut,Half TB by CUCUMBER (GSB) as mentioned above. May have show winnings recorded ??? & poss picture.
Thanks You all for your help and info..Great effort.
Cheers
Sue
Sue |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 07 Nov 2009 : 12:20:36 AM
Hi Pelle, Hope your well, how is your leg doing???Thanks for the info.leaving the link for Silver Queen. What a pity they are all bays. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/silver+queen7
Looks like it was a good line...as
Silverdale Aquatint, mare,born 1925(Cherry Tint/Silvery II). Won lots of prizes.
1925 NPS Bronze Medal RASE
1926 3rd. NPS
1928 1st & 2nd.NPS & 1st RASE
1931 1st & Cup NPS London Spring Show
1932 1st.NPS London spring show
1933 1st. Int.Olympia & 1st Aldershot.
Thanks Sue
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| Pelle |
Posted - 06 Nov 2009 : 7:21:49 PM
In Nps reg XX : Silvery II (Vol 16-17 and 19)
by Right For'ard 368 , bay 14-1-1/2.
dam: 1631 Silver Queen, bay 14-1 , by Sandiway 121 bay,14-0
G.dam: 573 Silvertail, bay, by Low Water (Vol.XV ,p197) by Lowlander. |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 05 Nov 2009 : 10:59:10 PM
Hi Melynda, getting interesting now. Thanks for the info.
Cheers Sue, |
| Melynda |
Posted - 04 Nov 2009 : 6:09:58 PM
I put his picture and details on Sporthorse the other day as I found them in an old book.
Haven't had time to research Cuddington yet.
Just found this;
"the famous stallion Sandiway, just over 14 hands, has been a very considerable factor in the successes secured, for two-thirds of the animals were sired by him. As it may be remembered, he was got by the thoroughbred Rosewater, the property of Sir Walter Gilbey, the dam being Cuddington, a celebrated mare belonging to Sir Humphrey de Trafford, who was the breeder of Sandiway. Cuddington was by Cucumber out of a Welsh pony, so that Sandiway is a three-quarter bred stallion, and both sire and dam were champion ponies of their day in the show-ring. Welsh pony blood has been a prominent factor in the foundation stock."
The stud mentioned is Grange Stud (ie. Mr John Barker), abstract from a sale 1905. |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 04 Nov 2009 : 4:23:15 PM
Hi Suzy, Thanks a lot, its the Cucumber one for sure and a nice pic of the old boy. My PC refuses to read your links. So will see if I can find them.
(Ref. Cuddington 1886 - Riding Pony)
Cheers.
Sue |
| dormouse |
Posted - 04 Nov 2009 : 2:35:20 PM
http://www.archive.org/stream/modernpolo00mill#page/270/mode/2up
It appears from this that Rosewater has also been know as Johnnie Day just to confuse things.
http://www.archive.org/stream/newbookofhorse00rich#page/n5/mode/2up
If you search for Sandiway this book has a picture of Sandiway, a picture of a mare with foal at foot by him and a reference.
Suzy |
| dormouse |
Posted - 04 Nov 2009 : 12:38:33 PM
Weatherby's on line free reports have the following Sandiways listed.
Sandiway, Filly born 1881, by Doncaster, ex Clemence
Sandiway, Colt born 1943, by Fairway, ex Cestria
Sport Horse Data have a Sandiway which might be the one that you are after.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10569156
Described as a dark bay stallion bred by Sir Humphrey de Trafford, owner Sir J. Barker a polo pony stallion.
Sire Rosewater a bay TB stallion born 1883 by Rosicrucian ex Lady Day.
Dam Cuddington, sire Cucumber dam not listed, bred by Sir Humphrey de Trafford.
Cucumber a TB stallion born 1870 by Saccharometer out of owner Aminette.
Someone has put on allbreedpedigree that he was born in 1895 and was 14.00hh. |
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