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T O P I C R E V I E W
Callisto
Posted - 24 Jan 2010 : 12:33:24 PM Unfortunately my 4 year old mare Lily (Zahkira) has been diagnosed with a sarcoid on her belly, she is going to be treated by 4 applications of a cream from the experts at Liverpool University. I have not been told what sort of sarcoid it is yet, it is not raised and is approximately the size of an old 5p piece. It is on the hairy part of the belly approximtely where her navel would be if she had one, and she has accidentally caught it with her hind legs while laying down (it became swollen and bled very lightly and was pale pink in colour).
I would like to know about other peoples' experiences with this treatment i.e. how successful it has been and frankly how much I should worry about the outcome - having looked it up on the internet I have seen some very grisly and frightening sights.
She is perfectly happy in herself and full of the joys of spring
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
debs
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 10:37:47 PM Seems to be quite positive for all! Good! Vet is up tomorrow to check Ali, he has one big scab still hanging on, the rest have gone, to me the skin underneath seems to be quite healthy looking.... what do I know tho'??? Where one of the big scabs fell off felt warm though... Time will tell! Fingers x'd for all!
natntaz
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 9:47:27 PM I have had Taroub treated in February, He had five day coarse. Within a few days started to make like a cut around the area. Another few days seemed to have some sort of infection and was severely lame. So antibiotics and bute, first coarse didn't work second lot cleared infection. The scab and the sarcoid looked massive. But could see it was slightly smaller behind the scabby skin. Its now been about six week and today i went up to find a hole in the skin where the sarcoid has fell off which is quite large but i am hoping that it will shrink so that i am able to get him to a couple of shows later in the year.
I would happily post pictures if someone could do it for me as if i could say anything about sarcoids its that you don't seem to get the start to finish pictures, which would be quite useful as i am not usually a worry-er but have to say was with this. I am still a little worried to what size scar will be but the main thing is he is ok.
I have to say the Professor has been so very helpful. He said that Taroubs sarcoids was one of the rarer type and that no one could know how badly he would of reacted to the cream and that it was probably more about the oils in the cream rather than the cream itself.
Callisto
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 11:31:02 AM Yes, all Lily's sarcoids have been photographed at each stage and referred to Dr. K, waiting for his reaction to the last photo that I sent off last week - fingers crossed that he says she doesn't need any more treatment.
BabsR
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 11:25:03 AM My friend`s mare Kharisma who was born at our Stud in 1989, developed a sarcoid on her upper inner hind leg. About the size of a 50p piece raised and warty looking. She was a four year old and the vet advised sending her to Liverpool to be treated.
Prof. Knottenbelt had formulated a new cream for treatment of Sarcoids (which at the time could only be applied at Liverpool) Kharima had a five day stay with the cream applied daily. When we collected her, her hind leg was really swollen and looked very painful. Prof Knotty said not to touch the sarcoid and that it would drop off in approx 6/7 weeks.
Sure enough, he was right... just leaving a pencil like line scar.
Kharisma is still at livery with us, now twenty two years old and has never had a re-occurrance. The Liverpool creme is now applied by your own Vet with no need for hospitalisation ( very serious cases are probably still referred to the expertise of Prof. Knotty who is brilliant in this field of veterinary medicine
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 10:01:38 AM Lily's final sarcoid now has a scab slightly smaller than a 2 pence piece, which is double the size it was before treatment. This is the third set of treatment (using the Liverpool cream) with this one, the vet looked at it on Thursday and is happy with it - she thinks the scabbing is developing well, so praying that it falls off to reveal pink smooth skin as well. The others have all disappeared so it's just this one, and fingers crossed that she doesn't develop any more . Obviously I will be keeping a close eye on her for the rest of her life though.
Where Lily was treated in both her armpits last year the hair has returned, but is a bit thinner than it was before. All the other sarcoid sites are now fully grown back. (There were 5, they were flat scab type sarcoids, about the size of a penny).
debs
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 08:55:14 AM The first of Ali's scabs have fallen off, revealing pink smooth skin, hoorah! One down.... I guess the hair will grow back on his legs where the cream burnt it off???
Keeping fingers x'd for the others, they are much bigger though.
Where was the lecture? At Liverpool? Would be interested in going to one, but woulkd prefer a bit closer!
Mrs Vlacq
Posted - 27 Feb 2011 : 8:20:38 PM We are fans of 'Knotty' too as he did the sucessful treatment on our Anglo mares horrendous eye sarcoid.
Grey Girl
Posted - 27 Feb 2011 : 5:56:18 PM I have recently been to a lecture on sarcoids by the utterly wonderful and charismatic Prof Knottenbelt, who is the most amazing person! I knew zilch about sarcoids when I went, and he gave so much information in an easy-to-digest way. One thing that he really did drum in though: you have to decide whether you are going to keep going or not start anything at all. I reckon he would be very sympathetic to cries of help though. Ask for a referral - I got the impression that he can diagnose a lot by looking at photographs. He also said that if your horse has sarcoids you must be VERY careful if your horse gets a cut etc anywhere else on their body as a sarcoid may then grow there - so it's keep any cut very clean and covered and don't touch it with a hand that's been near your horse's sarcoid. Good luck, and try and speak to Prof K if possible. He's lovely (do you get the impression that I am a fan?!)
debs
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 3:07:36 PM Ali has just finished his course of Liverpool cream. They have gone very crusty and the 2 larger ones have shrunk a lot....Hope this will continue! Vet to come back in Jan... My vet said they are treating more and more every year.Learnt a few bits of info..... you lot may know, but I didn't.... Once a horse has a sarcoid they probably will get more....oh joy! (suspected that bit,,,,) 20 years ago 10% of horses had them with an average of 3 lesions, now it is 25% with av. of 16 lesions. Arabs susceptable. Lipizzana.... ooh god, how do you spell that???? DO NOT get them, BUT if x'd with another breed WILL get them. Horses kept with cattle more susceptable.... they not sure why...maybe flies???
So now need to start thinking about how to keep flies off, have fed garlic...no difference. Fly rug pretty useless, was a cheap one so maybe invest in a better one. Anyone fed the Global herbs supplement???
The vet came out again today and took a look at my horses sarcoids. They havent gone and they are coming back, in original places and now inside of his thighs. But in defence of Derek's cream (Liverpool Cream) they didnt consult him and they didnt use new or a strong enough strength of cream, in my opinion. So i am very upset with my vets, but i'll have to get over it, my main concern is to get my little young yearling boy well. My vets also informed me that i am not to use this horse as a stud horse and horses which have suffered sarcoids should in his opinion not be used for breeding purposes. As he thinks that some horses are or can be predisposed to it and those that are should not be bred from. Also I'm now left with a horse which nobody will want to buy or get covered for with regards to insurance. Also, after my year of insurance is up, i will not ever be able to get insurance help with regards to paying for any future recurrences, as i'm sure there will be some. Just hope that the pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow, as I'm sure going to need it. My only concern and worry is, if i cannot afford to keep up with the treatments and the horse's quality of life is suffering then the future for my horse looks bleak. My vets are speaking of him having radiation therapy or cryo. All of which are extremely costly and i just dont have the money. I'm desperate for some solutions or glimmer of hope. I seriously regret ever buying this horse. I'll try to stay optomistic, but it is very hard to do. When all the evidence keeps on stacking up against you.
Has anyone on this thread ever heard of Blood root and used it? From what I've read it's very good. But would like to hear some of your views. Cheers
Callisto
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 07:01:04 AM Hi Debs, we found the first one on Lily in December, then more in May, haven't found any new ones since then, fingers crossed. As I said, I am currently waiting for a response from Liverpool with regard to the latest round of photos of the sarcoids post treatment (which was July). I will try and post photos of Lily's sarcoid, but they were a round area of hairless scaly skin about the size of a penny, they were not raised/lumpy. It takes a long time because of the intervals between diagnosis, feedback from Liverpool, order the cream, apply the cream, wait 4-6 weeks, take photos, wait for feedback from Liverpool...I am very lucky in that none of Lily's have been in a place that interferes with riding her and she has been very good about the whole process.
debs
Posted - 28 Sep 2010 : 9:24:19 PM Reading your feedback with interest.... Callisto, how long has the treatment been going on? Have been away since saturday, tonight looks at Ali warts and they seem to be a bit bigger and much more lumpy... Will take more photos to forward to my vet. Oh joy! Would be very interested to see pic's
Fayrelands 4ever
Posted - 27 Sep 2010 : 7:57:44 PM Sorry everyone not been on site for a very long time. Just been megga busy. My horses sarcoids update is as follows. Out of the two which were treated. He does infact have two which look suspecious on either side of his cheeks. One seems to be not really doing much and is only pimple size. The other feels like a skin tag which we can get when we are very old, like me. My vet has recently looked at them and said that they might be warts or could be anything as it is just too early to tell. I'd wish he's do something about it as i only have insurance cover for this flippin things for one year, as we all know my insurance cover afterthan will be void. Anyway, getting back to the two which were treated with the Liverpool cream. One which was the larger one, still has a black dry flat cap on. While the other has dropped off. But what's left underneath, is not what i expected. It is still a prominant lump and in my view still needs to be treated again. The vet was shown this only last week and didnt seem to be bothered much. I reminded him that i would like treatment to start soon and not near my renewal time. What are they waiting for, honestly i just dont understand their logic sometimes. To me this still needs cream. As this was one area which the vet (in my opinion) didnt apply enough cream. Also i still have a big gap of weather my cream was actually of strong enough quality. As the cream was most definitely not made up for me horse. Weird or what. Vet's are a law on to themselves. But i'm trying to stay optomistic. I have to say also that i didnt really see much if any improvement with at least 3 to 4 tubs of the Global herbs sarcex supplement. I did however see some improvement when i was applying the Thuja cream. So just depends. Also one lady mentioned uptodate injections. I think that this helps with a suppressed immune, so it is always worthwhile making sure your horses are fully and properly vaccinated. I'm now looking at putting him on an immune boost, as i still think this could help him, well it's my belief and i have to be feeling like i'm doing as much as i can to help him. Even though some might tell you it's all a waste of money. Calisto, love to see some pictures of your horses and I'll show you mine. Although I havent got a clue how to put them on here. Might be good if we can show others pictures as this will help them to decide what it is their horses have. I think pictures are always good. This is only in my opinion but i would recommend the liverpool cream, as it really has kicked the butt of the condition. I just think that it is my vet's which are letting me down presently. Also it is expensive, my vets charged me £70 just to come out and apply the cream. The total bill with a biopsy was over £750. Fancy having to find that on top of a few thousand for a supposedly healthy yearling. You can just imagine my shock finding this so soon after the sale.
Callisto
Posted - 26 Sep 2010 : 08:02:38 AM Well I'm still waiting for Dr K's verdict on the latest set of photos of Lily's sarcoids (post treatment). Hopefully it's good news, as it seems to have been dragging on for a very long time now. The flies have been a complete nightmare this year. Lily has been kept in during the day when the flies were at their worst, and fully wrapped up in her fly rug when she is out, plus covered in fly repellent... Haven't found any new sarcoids which is a plus.
debs
Posted - 22 Sep 2010 : 05:01:19 AM Have just had to send photo's of Ali warts up to Liverpool, Dr D recommends the Liverpool cream, he said he wasnt 100% that they are sarcoids, but as they have changed quickly, he is loathe to leave. Have been feeding global herbs...think will give a miss now. Must dig out vaccs dates as have a feeling that these co-incide... No matter what I use Ali is always covered in flies, he is in during the day on vet recommendation...
Fayrelands 4ever
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 08:24:26 AM Just wanted to update everyone on my present young horses condition. We had had the treatment with the liverpool cream, although there is still some descrepancy as to the strength of the cream as it was not made up by the Prof Knottenbelt. But on the two areas where it has been applied they are now black and flat and, I think, soon to drop off. However, my new littly poor horsy has two other suspecious looking raised spots or tags on either side of his cheeks. When i pointed this out to the vet he was reluctant to do anything about it as they were so small. I'm concerned that these are not being treated as in my opinion surely they must contain the virus or germ. That's just my opinion, I would have liked to have seen the vet treat these as well. But like i said they were reluctant, but then maybe they are just waiting for a repeat call out so as they can drag out the treatment and get maximum money out of the poor long suffering owners who will do anything to make their horses healthier. But in saying all of that, the vet is due out again for his second shot of injections and I will be really putting him under the spot light this time and will not accept no as an answer. I'll keep you all posted. I hope that your horses are all well also. Reports on the Global Herbs, not worked as well as i would have liked. It's a lot of money and to be honest i personally havent seen much if any improvment. So i think I'll give this a miss, but might start applying the Thuja ointment on the face lumps. Do let me know if you have any more ideas. I hope Calisto's horse Lily is responding well after treatment. Sorry for the lateness replying but I've been so busy these days.
Callisto
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 6:29:31 PM The only other experience I have had of a sarcoid was one like a berry with a slight stalk, we tied it off with a horsetail hair and put honey on it, (we were told to do this by an old horseman, and this was over 30 years ago), it came off and the horse never had any more. I do think different types respond to different treatments. Lily's current ones are flat with a sort of granular surface, about the size of a 5p.
marionpack
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 6:09:19 PM Thanks Barbara, Sounds about the same sort of place as my fillys, I'm worried about tying it off as my friends horse had his tied off (it wasn't a stalk more like a marble under the skin) and now he must have about 25/30 of them, so tying his off has obviously excelerated the growths, this is why I was asking about the different types of treatment for the different types of sarcoid, my old boy who is 26 had 2 angleberry ones removed by surgery when he was 4 and they have never returned
barbara.gregory
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 4:29:57 PM If the growth is on a stalk tying it off will stop the blood supply and it will just drop off. My mare had one just in front of her teats and it grew to the size of a grapefruit really quickly. I tied the sta;k off and it fell off after a few weeks and has never returned; that was about 4 years ago.
Barbara
marionpack
Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 1:51:01 PM Would it be possible for any of you who have horses with sarcoids to post pictures of them and the treatment they have received/tried, as after reading up on them it seems that the different types of sarcoids need different treatments, maybe this is why some treatments are working on some horses and not on others, the worrying thing is that if you try and treat the sarcoid incorrectly then it can promote the growth rather rapidly instead of getting rid of it, my filly who is 4 has had a small lump about the size of a pea on her belly, in the last 2 weeks it has grown outwards to about 1/4" in length and now has broken out at the top so am pretty sure that it is a sarcoid
Fayrelands 4ever
Posted - 24 Jul 2010 : 07:51:14 AM Hello and thank you again to everyone for sharing with us your experiences. My horse's treatment is still continuing with the Liverpool cream but there have been other complications with his treatment which i unfortunately cannot presently go into any detail. But i will of course tell everyone how he is progressing and in my opinion which methods have worked best for him. Has anyone on this thread ever heard of Newmarket cream or Bloodroot ointment? It is a homeopathic cream and comes from a plant and I think works in similar ways to the Liverpool cream but I dont think it's so vet reliant. Meaning I think you can apply it yourself. But I'm not 100% sure so I myself would like to find out has anybody had any experience with using this cream and what are it's successes if any??
Fleas
Posted - 23 Jul 2010 : 10:19:40 PM I dont think it is unusual for the sarcoids to clear on their own - my old geldings first one appeared on his ear, it was one of the nasty ones, then one day it burst and healed... unfortunately he was one of those bizarre cases and in 6 months ended up with hundreds, all the angry 'angleberry type' as they were known back then. Some of the burst ones did heal but there were so many, if you looked at the back of him and moved his tail you could see what looked like a bag of peas popping out running from his bottom right down to his sheath and tht was just one area i was hoping to never have to see the blighters again but one of my geldings now has a few of them tucked in his front legs and a possible one where the girth will go (hes only 3) so I continue to read and learn more about them all the time.
debs
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 10:53:58 PM I thought that each case was prescribed seperately... Would definately check this out if I were you. Especially after watching that awful vet programme this evening, whilst I have no problems of trust with our vets, who often dont charge for call outs if you need them regularly, I would be very very wary with practices such as medivet...
Callisto
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 8:20:04 PM The Liverpool Cream does take time to work, after a week of applications every 2 days (completed last Friday) Lily's are swollen, however according to my vet it takes a full month for the process to work through, so I would expect them to possibly swell further in time to come. I can only report my experience, but my vet sent photos to Dr K, and he prescribed cream at 3 different strengths which I paid for and am expecting to be repaid on my vet's fees insurance. As Lily passed a 5 stage vetting when I bought her with no sarcoids reported, I am covered for my claim. however after these current sarcoids are dealt with then I would expect them to exclude any new ones. The different creams were applied to the different sarcoids as per Dr K's instructions. We are now waiting for it to do its work, and in a month my vet will send photos back to Dr K for his opinion/instructions on what, if anything, to do next. The cream has to be kept refrigerated at the vet's surgery, it costs 75 pounds for each very small pot. I would be surprised if your vet is using the dregs of someone else's cream, but if you think that this is possibly the case then ask for proof that your vet obtained the cream from Dr K specifically for your boy's case.
Good luck with your treatment.
Emmo
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 5:55:13 PM Hi all Yes insurers will exclude. My boy had his surgically removed in 2003 after an application of Liverpool cream caused it to grow to the size of a tennis ball within 2 weeks, and become bleeding and ulcerated and was swinging like a pendulum from his stomach. The operation was around £600. AApparentlythey charge by the minute when a horse is under aanesthetic! He still has numerous others that have never changed since they first appeared and i am now too scared to touch them. My advice from my experience would be to leave well alone unless they are already growing or situated in a problem area. I am fully aware that there others could flare up at any minute and he is kept well away from flies as i am convinced that these horrible creatures are what caused it in the first place.
. Obviously I will be keeping a close eye on her for the rest of her life though.
