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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Dec 2008 : 12:59:41 PM
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I wonder if perhaps a better 'grass roots' approach is for folks to club together and either sponsor Arab/AA/PBA classes at local shows (and keep on putting up ribbons and maybe some small prize monies come hell and high water, no matter how small the entries).
We will never sell more horses outside the existing market by holding Arab-only shows: we need to get out there in the wider world and show people just how wrong the stereotypes are!
Keren |
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Theo
Silver Member
England
368 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2008 : 3:19:51 PM
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I was very dissappointed to find that the Anglo and PBAR UK Championship Show no longer carries on (since 2005). Mrs Osbourne and Helen Seymour ( Bless Monty...)put so much effort into organising such a lovely venue. Only to find 12 entries for the 2006 show... of which 4 were ours. There were no shortage of people having their qualifying cards signed at qualifying shows... but where were they at the Nationals?
We used to take 6 horses to the local AHS summer show at Ardingly, but last year we only took Waz and the 'ol boy Anglo for a local annual outing!
I used to thrive to qualify for the National Championship Show, but there seems very little incentive to 'wheel' the horses out lately?
As for the 'Amateur' Classes, at the AHS Nationals, one year I overheard a committee member referring it to the 'fun class in the side ring'. Hey we worked just as hard and paid the same entries, footed the same diesel and stabling costs!
Anyway, enough moaning...
Bring back the Anglo/ PBAR (UK) Championship Show!!! Please, please, please?
T :-) x |
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2008 : 5:16:26 PM
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Hi
I to used to love the AA/PBA inhand championships.We always did very well and i thought it was a shop window ,at one time for your stock!
I now live down South, but i know that when i was up north we did think it was a bit toooooooo far to travel to.It would be great now as i live 10 mins form the College EC
The arab/trakehner perfomance event was run last year.
It had dressage, eventing, jumping and ridden sport horses classes.They had put on western but no one entered i think.
It was a great competition to take your arabs to and show they are not just pretty faces and it had prize money!
It will run again next year so perhaps all you arab owners who want to get out and have a great day doing something different could go?It is only open to horses that are registered with the AHS or the TBF.
My 5 yr old stallion was the high points champion and he is registered with both stud books!  |
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Chris James
Silver Member
United Kingdom
497 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2008 : 7:54:18 PM
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Well said nn . if only more people (who talk the talk) but can they walk the walk??
If they would actually go out and compete against all the other breeds ... as we used to do in the past. However, I think 'C' show in hand status means that a win is all the status they have needed in the past to sell their stock and 'talk the talk'.
Maybe in the new financial setting things will change, and everyone will use their Arabs for everything.
I would however say that many of the big in hand winners/producers are also all-round horsemen and always have been(sadly many people aren't aware of it).
I'm thinking of the Jones' who hunt with their purebreds, and Frances & Paul Atkinson who drive theirs & do western riding. Emma Maxwell has done dressage & jumping & everything else. Also add Judith Evans, Louisa Biles, Linda Hughes (who also shows succcessfully in the pony world) &&&+++ lots of others,who appreciate their Arabs as horses - they will be the ones who will continue to find a market for their horses in this market downturn. |
Chris James
http://home2.btconnect.com/cjames-arabians |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 10:53:58 AM
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| True Chris. I love the thought that Mark Gamlin was a race jockey too!! |
Roseanne |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 12:15:50 PM
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Arabs a good at dressage
There are dozens of shows locally all over the country for dressage all winter.
Exposes the Arab against all breeds and they sometimes WIN! |
    
blue moon |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 3:45:15 PM
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My boy regularly does well in dressage and got 2nd reserve champion againt all sorts of posh warmbloods at the championships at beaver hall this year! 
I think dressage judges attitudes have changed a lot over the last couple of years  |
   
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 4:35:30 PM
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know what to look for in an Arab. I agree about there being more to 'type' than a pretty head. The whole 'carriage' should scream type, the head is the last thing you see for a correctly and powerfully moving horse with its tail carried and .............just thinking of how baby Alileo was moving on Sunday, he could have been on a cushion of air not rising out of six inches of gluey mud, beautiful arched neck, tail over his back..yummy!
originally posted by patww
Must echo your comments Pat...particularly the "on a cushion of air and not rising out of six inches of gluey mud"
So....why is `knee action trot` becoming more acceptable and I have observed this in a number of Pure Arab classes, recently Definitely not Arab action in my humble opinion.
www.SunrayngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 18 Dec 2008 5:50:26 PM |
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jas
Junior Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 5:41:05 PM
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| The high knee action trot is one of the reasons that the anglo and part bred breeders are not using the pure breds any more - or at least having great problems finding a stallion that still has the long low, ground covering action. |
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zaminda1
Bronze Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 12:08:01 PM
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Would love to see arab jumping classes with a style and performance type judging. Mine do everything and I think this would be a great way to show the 'arabs don't jump' people who wouldn't buy one and are generally rude about them that they are very capable at anything their rider wants to do. Also the attitude of back waving etc to wind horses up needs to be stopped. My friends daughter had to remove her horse from the ring at newbury due to the so called pro's. If you need to do that kind of carry on to get your horses to show some presence then maybe you just don't have the right sort of animal or attitude. Mine do that naturally, which is what I thought arabs were supposed to do
Sally |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 12:53:44 PM
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I understand the high knee action came to be accepted as part of the Arabian Type some years ago. I am sure Peter Upton mentioned this in a book or somewhere, anyone reading this is sure to correct me here.
It came about as being accepted because of the the large number of imported Arabians who had this short but high stepping action in front.
If you look closely at some they do cover the same amount of ground as those with the lower daisy cutting action we were all used to.
My personal preference is a balance in between. This has come about because after riding an Arab with a very high knee action, I felt so uncomfortable and unsafe I vowed to find me a stallion who trotted properly
I do think this is where our Crabbet and Russians come to the fore as they often have such good movement in front and behind that they and their crosses excel under saddle because they feel comfortable for the judge.
JMO here of course! |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 6:51:16 PM
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| Sue you must be right. Our Mandy had a brilliant first year under saddle, every judge commented on her, and yet she's as plain Crabbet as they come! ie all the rest looks like an Arab, but she's no seahorse head. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 8:50:42 PM
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If you go to 'The Authentic Arabian' and read what Lady Anne Blunt/Lady Wentworth wrote about the *correct* Arabian trot, it is described as being "like a deer trotting through fern" (fern = bracken). If you have watched deer move through bracken (and I've been lucky enough to do just that, in Bradgate Park right on the doorstep of Leicester, LOL), they DO display quite a considerable degree of knee action - they need the elevation to avoid the bracken roots. So a comparatively high knee action IS correct.
Note I say 'comparatively'. You shouldn't see the same sort of knee action you'd get from a Hackney, Welsh Cob or Morgan - and there should still be plenty of extension FROM THE SHOULDER.
A low 'daisy cutter' action is fine for a British hack on well-manicured turf, but in the Arabian desert - which is composed more of hard ground and loose rocks than sand - if your horse doesn't lift its knees well, it (and you!) are going to be flat on your nose in no time. So it's perfectly logical that the Arab should have a comparatively high and free knee movement.
In one of the back issues of 'The Crabbet Magazine' there is a photo article by Carol Woodbridge Mulder (who along with Gladys Brown Edwards is one of the two great American authorities on the breed) which illustrates a correct Arabian trot: the knee comes up as high as the elbow (but no higher), and then unfolds with the elbow to provide that 'floating' extension we all adore.
In past years there were certain Old English Arabs with a 'daisy-cutter' action: however, this was often combined with what GBE called a 'bean-shooter' action of the foot (what we called a toe flip): this is *not* correct Arabian action, since the toe flip indicates that the horse is not sufficiently free-moving in the forehand. In fact, the forehand doesn't extend as far as the hind quarters are doing, and the toe-flip is an evasion to avoid an over-reach or more serious form of interference.
I have seen this in my own horses: my foundation mare who has a long and low but powerful trot (with a back-end that could power a train!), forges: her daughter who was sired by a horse descended from Raffles' half-sister, and who had the same elevated and extended trot that made Raffles famous (El Kabah) has much more knee action PLUS extension and does not forge.
Knee action is perfectly correct - *providing* there is also extension. Something that pumps up and down on the spot is definitely incorrect, but I think in 30 years around Arabs I've only seen *one* horse that fitted that description.
Keren |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 10:43:09 AM
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Ahhh.....El Kabah, Keren wasn't he so lovely. Of course we had Amira Looli and her sister Jameela here some years ago now. They were wonderful, very typey and before their time. Boy could they move too. Very hot but gentle individuals.
I promised Mrs Rumsey they had a home for life with me and they did.
I have to admit after losing my last Babson related mare Jameena to cancer not too long ago, I have found a mare on here, Arabian lines, who has a fabulous dam line going back to some of the old Babson lines that I used to own. 18 yrs old but worth offering her a home (for life)to just try a dream of crossing those lost lines (to me) with my modern day chap.
Those prepotent lines will come to the fore I bet.
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Edited by - SueB on 20 Dec 2008 11:28:01 AM |
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lisa b
Gold Member
795 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 11:16:52 AM
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| hi sue... i saw youd got that wonderful mare... well done you..xxxx |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 11:45:28 AM
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I set the ball rolling here because it is important at this time that we have a vibrant show season and also try to liberalise the structure of shows in this country .
The Ecaho set up has had the effect of contracting showing in Europe as ordinary people cannot compete so stay at home .If owners are given an even chance they will turn out and IMO it will be a very strong signal to export markets to come here and buy stock if their is good newsy reportage from here.
It does require the members to do something ,think outside the box, and try something new today! |
blue moon |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 12:13:28 PM
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It does not need rocket science or brilliant ideas it needs people to get out and get showing,There are two many "Chiefs and not enough Indians"
There are websites Galore and fancy photo`s but where are the exhibitors???
Nick BBA |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 12:46:59 PM
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Just had notification from AHS re HOYS 2009 - all horses entering HOYS qualifiers at AHS affiliated shows must have a qualifying card from AHS. These are £85 bought upto and including March 31st 2009 and £100 after. This has been a recent decision by Council to try and guarantee the future of Arab classes at HOYS.
Now corrected by AHS - please see further postings ... |
Marilyn
     
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
Edited by - Sadika on 21 Dec 2008 8:54:09 PM |
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Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 1:04:32 PM
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| That is outrageous - how can the AHS justify that decision? |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 1:24:09 PM
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| I don't know - I am trying to find out - thought that sponsorship had been secured from Hutchinsons for 3 years - so 2 years to run - and of course there is a levy paid by each entry to HOYS ... so this latest decision means more expense for competitors and will certainly make some people think twice about entering a HOYS class - probably those who may do a few classes maybe not seriously aiming for HOYS? I would think shows may consider putting on "Open" non-HOYS classes again - we (The Classic) tried it but was not successful ... there will competitors with non-Novice horses who will be wanting to compete and willing to pay a the HOYS levy a couple of times but not another £85/£100. Also assume that show secs will have to check status of HOYS entries too ... |
Marilyn
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
Edited by - Sadika on 20 Dec 2008 1:38:46 PM |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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mouse
Silver Member
United Kingdom
309 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 2:00:45 PM
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Madness! 
Like Phoenixbruka said, a very good way to put off amateurs |
    
South Norfolk/Suffolk border |
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Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 3:17:11 PM
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the AHS has obviously not heard theres a recession on  just one more nail in the coffin for amature showing, the prices force more elitism by default
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www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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